we're not in kansas anymore
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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 Posted: 02/10/06 - 13:24 Post subject:
Careful there Chuck 
...from the God thread...
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | But just because the factual stuff is proven does not make the phlosphical points right. |
You mentioned this about the creationist viewpoint, the opposite is true about the evolutionary theory, how ever high the heap of what man's laboratories might brew up, it is still philosophical musing to leap back in time to how a result might have happened in a long gone environment with creatures long gone under conditions non-existent ever again and on the results of scientists funded by colleges, governments or private industries with agendas, budgets and pressures to have results go one way or another. Just my opinion again, but the skeptic in me cannot elevate the researchers producing 'facts' about evolution to be any different than any other group out there including congressmen, televangilists, journalists or supreme court justices; like I mentioned before, accepting their work as golden takes a whole lotta faith
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 14:49 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | Careful there Chuck
...from the God thread...
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | But just because the factual stuff is proven does not make the phlosphical points right. |
You mentioned this about the creationist viewpoint, the opposite is true about the evolutionary theory, how ever high the heap of what man's laboratories might brew up, it is still philosophical musing to leap back in time to how a result might have happened in a long gone environment with creatures long gone under conditions non-existent ever again and on the results of scientists funded by colleges, governments or private industries with agendas, budgets and pressures to have results go one way or another. Just my opinion again, but the skeptic in me cannot elevate the researchers producing 'facts' about evolution to be any different than any other group out there including congressmen, televangilists, journalists or supreme court justices; like I mentioned before, accepting their work as golden takes a whole lotta faith |
Is there any science you accept as true?
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 15:31 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | Careful there Chuck
...from the God thread...
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | But just because the factual stuff is proven does not make the phlosphical points right. |
You mentioned this about the creationist viewpoint, the opposite is true about the evolutionary theory, how ever high the heap of what man's laboratories might brew up, it is still philosophical musing to leap back in time to how a result might have happened in a long gone environment with creatures long gone under conditions non-existent ever again and on the results of scientists funded by colleges, governments or private industries with agendas, budgets and pressures to have results go one way or another. Just my opinion again, but the skeptic in me cannot elevate the researchers producing 'facts' about evolution to be any different than any other group out there including congressmen, televangilists, journalists or supreme court justices; like I mentioned before, accepting their work as golden takes a whole lotta faith |
Is there any science you accept as true? |
Yes.. of course.
Is there anything spiritual you accept as true?
Last edited by jrjo on 02/10/06 - 15:39; edited 1 time in total
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 15:39 Post subject:
oop..doubler
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 15:55 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: |
WTR: I do not see or hear of too many groups trying to "force feed" secular humanism on others.
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you must not look so hard - why right here we have CB our very own secular humanist jihadi!
seriouly the screaming hissy fit when anything other than their religion of evolution makes me wonder what they'll pour out into the streets to burn if they don't get their way
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tdassow
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 17:34 Post subject:
Instead of discussing what should be taught in science versus philosophy class. Perhaps we should hold faith-based theory to the rigors of science. That is why I favor science-based theories on natural phenomona. If I have a question of why bad things happen to good people, --I'll speak to a religous leader. If I want to know how the continents are moving on the planet--I'll speak to a scientist.
One of the biggest differences between science and religon is that science changes has new facts and data are discovered. Religon, on the other hand, once enters into the political realm, tends to fight facts and data and maintain the status quo. (Religon, as a personal belief, in my opinion, when held closely can a pure and powerful force.)
I get mildly frustrated at this topic, but the truth will win out. If you wish to say the world is flat and is 4,000 years old that is your right. Heck, even if you want to tell my kids that, go ahead, ---there are plenty of worse fools out to not believe, and the world will move on.
Last edited by tdassow on 02/10/06 - 17:54; edited 1 time in total
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 17:48 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | Careful there Chuck
...from the God thread...
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | But just because the factual stuff is proven does not make the phlosphical points right. |
You mentioned this about the creationist viewpoint, the opposite is true about the evolutionary theory, how ever high the heap of what man's laboratories might brew up, it is still philosophical musing to leap back in time to how a result might have happened in a long gone environment with creatures long gone under conditions non-existent ever again and on the results of scientists funded by colleges, governments or private industries with agendas, budgets and pressures to have results go one way or another. Just my opinion again, but the skeptic in me cannot elevate the researchers producing 'facts' about evolution to be any different than any other group out there including congressmen, televangilists, journalists or supreme court justices; like I mentioned before, accepting their work as golden takes a whole lotta faith |
Is there any science you accept as true? |
Yes.. of course.
Is there anything spiritual you accept as true? |
All kinds of things. But I thought we were discussing Science?
jrjo, how do you decide what science you accept and what you don't?
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 17:49 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | andydp wrote: |
WTR: I do not see or hear of too many groups trying to "force feed" secular humanism on others.
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you must not look so hard - why right here we have CB our very own secular humanist jihadi!
seriouly the screaming hissy fit when anything other than their religion of evolution makes me wonder what they'll pour out into the streets to burn if they don't get their way |
I've never tried to force my beliefs on anyone, wtr.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 02/10/06 - 18:22 Post subject:
by not allowing a theory that competes you are indeed forcing - but you're pretty lame as a jihadi
have a good weekend
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 02/11/06 - 09:58 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | by not allowing a theory that competes you are indeed forcing - but you're pretty lame as a jihadi
have a good weekend |
she's not "NOT ALLOWING" it just shouldn't be discussed as science. if you want it discussed there are other venues in which can be discussed. you don't teach Math during English class so why mix social studies in with science?
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 02/11/06 - 11:18 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | by not allowing a theory that competes you are indeed forcing - but you're pretty lame as a jihadi
have a good weekend |
she's not "NOT ALLOWING" it just shouldn't be discussed as science. if you want it discussed there are other venues in which can be discussed. you don't teach Math during English class so why mix social studies in with science? |
I guess I see a difference between the "religious" aspect and "theory". If a theory of how human life came to be: science. If based on proof of historical remains....scrolls, shroud, blah.....:social studies. I think their is a difference between ID and Creationism.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 02/11/06 - 23:01 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | by not allowing a theory that competes you are indeed forcing - but you're pretty lame as a jihadi
have a good weekend |
she's not "NOT ALLOWING" it just shouldn't be discussed as science. if you want it discussed there are other venues in which can be discussed. you don't teach Math during English class so why mix social studies in with science? |
CB can correct me if I'm wrong, but she's on record here in OT as posting the opinion that any Christian utterance has no place, no where, in no context, in public schools.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 02/11/06 - 23:32 Post subject:
I'm with tdassow and andydp and others here, this debate is tired. I'd prefer if public schools did not teach my kids my religious beliefs, or their perception of what my beliefs are or should be. I also believe you can believe in creationism and evolution, that they aren't mutually exclusive. I do. Finally, parents should be involved in what they are learning in school in all subjects and should hold the power of veto over things they don't agree with, by explaining to their kids what they believe, what was taught in school and why each is different, etc. Your kids will probably become more respectful and well rounded discerning kids as a result.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 02/12/06 - 00:11 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | I'd prefer if public schools did not teach my kids my religious beliefs, or their perception of what my beliefs are or should be.
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Why is okay then to teach children that their belief "should be" evolution?
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 02/12/06 - 00:37 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | cherylpf wrote: | I'd prefer if public schools did not teach my kids my religious beliefs, or their perception of what my beliefs are or should be.
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Why is okay then to teach children that their belief "should be" evolution? |
My point was I don't want to see the public schools to teach religion. Evolution isn't my religious belief, nor does it conflict with my faith (as I mentioned) and as far as I'm concerned, its a fundamental aspect of science. So...my kids can understand that 2X9 is 18 and the basic concepts of science, including evolution.
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