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bjoiner
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 Posted: 07/13/06 - 12:18 Post subject: Strength Training Plan
I've never really done much strength training but would like to start. Specifically, upperbody-torso since I'm going to be putting in a lot of miles in the next couple months.
I've tried to start once before, but found that I let myself off easy (e.g. I'll lower the weights, do fewer reps etc) What I'm really looking for is a set plan. (Like, "on monday do 3 sets of 12 reps of bench presses") Something that I don't have to think about, but can just follow.
Thanks for any help,
Ben
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TriBob
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 13:07 Post subject:
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bjoiner
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 16:29 Post subject:
Thanks TriBob
Do you do every exercise or do you split it up into different days?
I was talking to a friend who said to eat lots of protein after using weights. I'm not really looking to "bulk up". Is this nessesary? I do get plenty (IMO) of protein in my normal diet.
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Phar lap
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Posted: 07/14/06 - 03:04 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
| bjoiner wrote: | I've never really done much strength training but would like to start. Specifically, upperbody-torso since I'm going to be putting in a lot of miles in the next couple months.
I've tried to start once before, but found that I let myself off easy (e.g. I'll lower the weights, do fewer reps etc) What I'm really looking for is a set plan. (Like, "on monday do 3 sets of 12 reps of bench presses") Something that I don't have to think about, but can just follow.
Thanks for any help,
Ben |
I'm a little confused Ben.
I've just read your "Best training practice" post, your running a half marathon in a couple of months, surely your priorities lie in your running training at this stage. Setting up a strength training program at this stage will not help your cause and quite possibly hinder your half.
You have to structure your training, leave the weights until after the half, then take on a progressive strength program.
Incidentally 3X12 Bench with low weights has little to do with strength.
Training whether weights or running must employ to overload principal.
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TriBob
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Posted: 07/14/06 - 10:50 Post subject:
| bjoiner wrote: | Thanks TriBob
Do you do every exercise or do you split it up into different days?
I was talking to a friend who said to eat lots of protein after using weights. I'm not really looking to "bulk up". Is this nessesary? I do get plenty (IMO) of protein in my normal diet. |
All of them every workout. It is a total body workout. You don't have to spend every day in the gym to workout.
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bjoiner
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Posted: 07/14/06 - 11:44 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
| Phar lap wrote: | | ...surely your priorities lie in your running training at this stage. Setting up a strength training program at this stage will not help your cause and quite possibly hinder your half. |
They do.  I was talking to a friend of mine about running the half and told him that what I have problems with is not so much my legs, but my arms. After about 11 miles, my arms feel very tired and I have a hard time keeping them in the normal position (and it's awkward to let them just hang). He suggested lifting weights to help - thus, the original post.
| Phar lap wrote: |
Incidentally 3X12 Bench with low weights has little to do with strength.
Training whether weights or running must employ to overload principal. |
Could you explain a little further? I wasn't thinking of using low weights. What I meant was that I had a hard time pushing through the heavier weights. (My discipline in lifting weights is nothing like my discipline for running - something I would eventually like to change.)
I'm not trying to second guess your advice, but I'm curious how doing weights for my arms would hinder my half (other than just taking time away from the running  )?
Much thanks, Phar Lap,
Ben
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Phar lap
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Posted: 07/16/06 - 04:50 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
| bjoiner wrote: | | Phar lap wrote: | | ...surely your priorities lie in your running training at this stage. Setting up a strength training program at this stage will not help your cause and quite possibly hinder your half. |
They do. I was talking to a friend of mine about running the half and told him that what I have problems with is not so much my legs, but my arms. After about 11 miles, my arms feel very tired and I have a hard time keeping them in the normal position (and it's awkward to let them just hang). He suggested lifting weights to help - thus, the original post.
| Phar lap wrote: |
Incidentally 3X12 Bench with low weights has little to do with strength.
Training whether weights or running must employ to overload principal. |
Could you explain a little further? I wasn't thinking of using low weights. What I meant was that I had a hard time pushing through the heavier weights. (My discipline in lifting weights is nothing like my discipline for running - something I would eventually like to change.)
I'm not trying to second guess your advice, but I'm curious how doing weights for my arms would hinder my half (other than just taking time away from the running )?
Much thanks, Phar Lap,
Ben |
I may have painted myself into a corner once again into tring to answer your question Ben. From about 1965, coaches veered away from the title "weight training" for runners, they preferred the description "strength training". This was because weight training facilities then were not freely available, also, because there were other methods of gaining strength.
You will find that quick middle distance runners 800/1,500m.have better all round physical strength, and greater specific strength (legs). Those that run a moderate 800/1,500m times possess reduced all round strength, often poor leg strength. They tended to run distances from 5km to 10km and farther. Hence the relationship of strength to speed.
Generally speaking there are three types of strength
Muscular endurance.
Power.
General endurance.
The first involves repeating a sub-maximal exercise many times (press-ups, squat- thrusts, chins). The second involves the ability to move maximum weight for a very short period. The third is the ability of the heart to pump enough blood around the body to supply sufficient oxygen for the required speed. The heart is a muscle.
There's no where to hide in the longer distances for a runner without good speed. A blatant fact if you watch a good quality 10km race and the last lap is run in sub 53secs.
Speed is relative.
You have run 19m.26s. for 5km. and 41m.09s. for 10km. those two times line up pretty well. Your time drops right away (1hr.43sec ) for the Half. Taking an educated guess it indicates to me that general endurance needs improvement.
So what type of strength?
Power is required to sprint, the greater the leg power the greater the stride length. Muscular endurance is required to run longer distances much of this comes from the ACT OF RUNNING. More comes if the act of running is made more difficult, e.g. running up hills, running in sand, running in water. This also improves the heart muscle.
There is little point in you being able to Bench 3X12 or lift huge weights overhead: such work is not required in running. All strength training should be specific to the task of running. One of the advantages of muscular endurance exercises is that the heart is made to work as if running.
Ben I could write you a general program on hypertrophy, muscular endurance or speed/power but I see little value with your half coming up in a month.
If you see yourself as a runner, put the extra time into running.
THEN, depending on just how much time you have and how serious you are about improvement, set future goals 3months, 6months,3 years, and PERIODISE your training to include strength training.
Hope this is is some help by way of an explaniation Ben.
Cheerio
Phar lap
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rolling rock
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Posted: 07/16/06 - 16:33 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
| Phar lap wrote: |
I may have painted myself into a corner once again into tring to answer your question Ben. From about 1965, coaches veered away from the title "weight training" for runners, they preferred the description "strength training". This was because weight training facilities then were not freely available, also, because there were other methods of gaining strength.
You will find that quick middle distance runners 800/1,500m.have better all round physical strength, and greater specific strength (legs). Those that run a moderate 800/1,500m times possess reduced all round strength, often poor leg strength. They tended to run distances from 5km to 10km and farther. Hence the relationship of strength to speed.
Generally speaking there are three types of strength
Muscular endurance.
Power.
General endurance.
The first involves repeating a sub-maximal exercise many times (press-ups, squat- thrusts, chins). The second involves the ability to move maximum weight for a very short period. The third is the ability of the heart to pump enough blood around the body to supply sufficient oxygen for the required speed. The heart is a muscle.
There's no where to hide in the longer distances for a runner without good speed. A blatant fact if you watch a good quality 10km race and the last lap is run in sub 53secs.
Speed is relative.
You have run 19m.26s. for 5km. and 41m.09s. for 10km. those two times line up pretty well. Your time drops right away (1hr.43sec ) for the Half. Taking an educated guess it indicates to me that general endurance needs improvement.
So what type of strength?
Power is required to sprint, the greater the leg power the greater the stride length. Muscular endurance is required to run longer distances much of this comes from the ACT OF RUNNING. More comes if the act of running is made more difficult, e.g. running up hills, running in sand, running in water. This also improves the heart muscle.
There is little point in you being able to Bench 3X12 or lift huge weights overhead: such work is not required in running. All strength training should be specific to the task of running. One of the advantages of muscular endurance exercises is that the heart is made to work as if running.
Ben I could write you a general program on hypertrophy, muscular endurance or speed/power but I see little value with your half coming up in a month.
If you see yourself as a runner, put the extra time into running.
THEN, depending on just how much time you have and how serious you are about improvement, set future goals 3months, 6months,3 years, and PERIODISE your training to include strength training.
Hope this is is some help by way of an explaniation Ben.
Cheerio
Phar lap |
good stuff coach! 
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bjoiner
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Posted: 07/17/06 - 12:07 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
[Message Posted Twice]
Last edited by bjoiner on 07/17/06 - 12:10; edited 1 time in total
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bjoiner
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Posted: 07/17/06 - 12:08 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
| Phar lap wrote: | You have run 19m.26s. for 5km. and 41m.09s. for 10km. those two times line up pretty well. Your time drops right away (1hr.43sec ) for the Half. Taking an educated guess it indicates to me that general endurance needs improvement.
Phar lap |
Much more than an educated guess. I think you hit the nail square on the head.
For my last Half (2 so far) I was training at about a 7:00 pace which I could keep up for the distance. The training plan I was following suggested 30secs/mile slower than race pace. Come race day, I kept up a 6:30 pace for about 11 miles but then my legs turned to jello and I walked for a while.
So, I guess my next question (thanks for being patient with me, btw) is; To improve my general endurance, should I work on increasing my distance past 13.1 miles or my speed at 13.1miles?
The training plan I started using for my first race was a "just get across the finish line" plan. It called for long distances only on the weekends. This just didn't feel like enough to get used to the distance at speed. Would you recommend putting in distance more often?
Fortunatly, I've got closer to 2 months before the race. (Actually, 2 months as of today.)
I really appreciate all of your help, Phar Lap. Probably the best advice I've ever recieved.
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Phar lap
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 05:18 Post subject: Re: Strength Training Plan
| bjoiner wrote: | | Phar lap wrote: | You have run 19m.26s. for 5km. and 41m.09s. for 10km. those two times line up pretty well. Your time drops right away (1hr.43sec ) for the Half. Taking an educated guess it indicates to me that general endurance needs improvement.
Phar lap |
Much more than an educated guess. I think you hit the nail square on the head.
For my last Half (2 so far) I was training at about a 7:00 pace which I could keep up for the distance. The training plan I was following suggested 30secs/mile slower than race pace. Come race day, I kept up a 6:30 pace for about 11 miles but then my legs turned to jello and I walked for a while.
So, I guess my next question (thanks for being patient with me, btw) is; To improve my general endurance, should I work on increasing my distance past 13.1 miles or my speed at 13.1miles?
The training plan I started using for my first race was a "just get across the finish line" plan. It called for long distances only on the weekends. This just didn't feel like enough to get used to the distance at speed. Would you recommend putting in distance more often?
Fortunatly, I've got closer to 2 months before the race. (Actually, 2 months as of today.)
I really appreciate all of your help, Phar Lap. Probably the best advice I've ever recieved. |
Sorry so long getting back to to you.
Ben I don't believe in changing horses in mid stream, stick with the program you are following until after this Half is over then incorporate a strength training program into either this program or find another one
Psychologically, it makes sense to be on one’s feet for the same duration as your half marathon target time. If your target is 90mins., you must build up to run for that duration even though you may only run 10 miles in that time.
For a runner of your potential (19m26s. and 41m.09s.)I feel the volume of running required (2 Hours) for the half marathon is a little exaggerated in your case.
Yes I'm a big fan of big miles but I would rather see you, once a week run for 90 min. and PRACTICE your PROJECTED RACE PACE 6.30 or 7.00min pace ? You should well within yourself for say 8 miles then ease back and run out the 90 mins. AYF. Easy day the next day.
A progressive build up, the following week 9 miles at projected race pace rounding out the 90mins AYF. etc.
Hope this is of some help.
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JustRun
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Posted: 09/03/06 - 07:59 Post subject:
awesome Find... great info.. Thank you!
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