HRMs, first marathons, clydesdales and Furman's workouts

Member

Maybe I should split this up to several posts (and maybe it belongs in starting line), but I figured it all goes together so I'd get better feedback sticking to one thread.

I'm 29, male, weigh about 190 lbs. Currently running about 12 miles/week. I would be running more, but the heat is just brutal and I'm having trouble adjusting my schedule to run early/late. I did a run at 6:30am last week and got mauled by insects, so I ran at 5:30pm the next day and it got up in the 90's.

I run 3-4 days a week, lift 2-3 days a week. I certainly don't have much in the way of abs, and maybe I could lose 15 lbs, but most of the reason I weigh 190 is that I'm 6'0" and work out a lot. I can do a few reps of 300 lbs. on the bench ... not sure how good that is, but I'm a decent-sized guy. I'm mostly doing maintenance workouts, not trying to bulk up anymore, but at the same time I'm not looking to lose 40 lbs. to run faster.

I'm trying to get in shape to run my first marathon. I'm not trying to break any world records here. I just want to do it. I live just east of Dayton, and it'd be nice to run the Columbus marathon in 12 weeks. Anything close to 4 hours would be great. If that's not a practical goal, I might go for the half-marathon and then run a full marathon around April. I'd love to qualify for Boston someday, but now I'm just trying to get in shape to finish. I don't have much problem running around 6-8 miles if I keep it really slow, but when I get close to an 8min/mile pace I get tired out in about 2-3 miles.

I just got a Timex HRM. It tells you your min/max for the whole run and your avg for each split. I'm not sure how seriously I should take the min/max figures, though. I went on a 4-mile run in the 90-degree heat last Thursday. Heartrate quickly got into the 170s. I sprinted about 1/4 mile towards the end to try and find my max, and it got up to 198. I actually looked down at the watch and saw 198, and that sounds about right (I was a pretty good 400m runner in highschool, and I got my heartrate well over 200 at the end of a run). Sunday I did a 35 min. hill workout. The watch says my average HR was 162 and peak was 218, but I always looked at the watch when I got to the top of the hill, and I never saw higher than 196. I also wore the HRM on Friday night to sleep for 6 hours, and it showed an average HR of 48 but a minimum of 30. I just don't know how seriously to take any of these numbers. I can't imagine that my min is actually 30 or my max is actually 218.

I was looking at the latest Runner's World a few weeks ago, and I thought the Furman routine might be good for me. It's not that I'm too lazy to run more than 3 days. I want to continue lifting at least 2 times a week for a couple hours, though, and I've also gotten some ankle pain in previous summers running 5-6 days a week. I thought the Furman workout might be good for me, but I really want to do whatever will get me in the best shape to finish 26 miles.

Back to the HRM... Should I just assume my max HR is around 200? If that's the case, should I be trying to stay in the 140-160 range to increase my endurance? I'm not too worried about speed right now, just adding distance. The Furman workout seems to stress some fairly hard runs. Should I be running in the 160-180 range 3 times a week? Would that really help? Would I just be much better off getting 5 runs a week closer to the 140-160 zone? I got some new Asics and my ankles are holding up pretty well, so I could probably handle 5 days.

I really don't know a single thing about LT and VO2 Max. I just assumed those weren't things worth worrying about. I got the HRM because I've heard it helps a lot to know which zone you're in when you have specific fitness goals.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

The Movie Geek

Marathon: http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm

It got me through my first marathon this past June and my mileage was about the level you're at, though slower.

I would advise against trying to push to a marathon in 12 weeks. Find one that fits at the end of the schedule (or do one in April to give yourself a larger base of training before the official training program begins). Don't worry about Boston anytime soon. Not that you can't get there, but rather than your time in relation to Qualifying, just worry about running and completing the marathon and feeling good about the experience.

Can't help you with the rest.

The Movie Geek

Oh, I'd advise against the Furman method for your first marathon. You may be running fewer days, but you're running harder and pushing the pace and cross training on your off days.

The Novice schedule that I posted has 4 days a week of running with two rest days and one cross training day.

Member

Thanks for the reply.

I'd looked at Hal's programs in the past... never got around to sticking to one. I like the look of that 4-day Novice schedule, though. Looks really good for just adding mileage to complete my first marathon. I have time to do some long bike rides, run some trails and other stuff on Sunday, so that schedule fits really well.

It might be a little crazy, but I'll try to just jump in at week 6 of the program and see if I can handle it. If I can keep up with the schedule, I can at least finish the marathon in October.

My biggest question is pace and using the HRM. Hal's schedule says, "Simply do your long runs at a comfortable pace," and, "Training during the week also should be done at a comparatively easy pace." Anybody have any good guesses there? Maybe I should try to keep HR under 160 for the mid-week runs and under 150 on the long runs? After a few miles, my heartrate seems to get up into the upper 160's unless I slow down to a pretty weak jog.

Member

I don't think you have any sort of a base of miles to run a marathon in 12 weeks, but from your post above it sounds like you have already made up your mind. Good luck.

Pyromaniac

I can't help you with the HRM stuff because I don't use one. I too am looking to run my first marathon, Akron, this fall. My mileage base right now is considerably higher than yours and I'm still concerned it's not high enough right now. I think trying to do a marathon in 12 weeks from where you're at right now is a ticket to injury. My advice is to train for a half using whatever program you're comfortable with and consider a marathon next year. If you decide to do the Columbus half, let me know because I think I'm going to run that also as a tune-up for Akron.

Member

HRM? Anyone?

I know I'm supposed to be running at the max I can run aerobically to increase my endurance/distance/whatever, I'm just having trouble coming up with a target heartrate.

I can keep it in the upper 150s for a few miles, then it seems to creep up to around 170 around the 4th mile. 175-177 is right about where I have to switch from exhaling every 4 steps to exhaling every 3.

I'm just wondering if I should walk a little when my HR is too high and do a lot of distance, or if I should just run as slow as possible when my HR is up around 170 and do as much distance as I can, or if I should just try and keep up a reasonable pace as long as I can and not be so concerned about the distance.

About the marathon, I'll probably end up running the Columbus half then do the Flying Pig in the Spring, but for now I'm trying to stick to Hal's novice schedule.

Member

Hello!

I started running again regularily this past fall after about a 6 year break. One of the first things I did was purchase a HRM. I found it really frustrating to stay under my anaerobic threshold at first because I was used to pushing myself quite a bit harder. But I resigned myself to stick with HRM training for a while. After about three months of what, at times, felt like labouriously slow running I noticed significant improvements in my aerobic conditioning (I could run further at faster paces before my heart rate reached the anaerobic zone).

At that point I stopped using the HRM for every run and started rewarding myself with a couple of tempo runs per week. Now I rarely use the HRM, just the odd time to check how my perceived exertion matches my actually exertion.

I never really enjoyed HRM training and had to ask myself why I was running. Was it in the hopes of becoming an elite distance runner or was it just to get out and enjoy myself, relieve stress and improve my overall fitness. Since the answer was the latter I hung up the HRM because it tended to create more stress than it relieved. Luckily I only paid $36 bucks dor it on eBay. Neutral

Probably doesn't answer your questions though. Confused

Member

I have a polar s720i that I use for every run. I've been using it since march. I'll give you my .02. When i first started training with it i noticed that i was frequently in the upper range of my HR at the end of my runs. My max hr is 188 and I was often at 174-180 (yikes!).

At the time i was running about 12 miles per week ( you can see my Doing the lydiard system post in this forum). I think this is about the same you are hitting right now. In fact, i was runnning 3-4 times and lifting twice.

What i had to do was switch to running every day and lift at lunch or in the evenings twice a week. As i've upped my mileage i noticed i can keep my HR stable over a longer period. You'll begin to figure out where you're most comfortable (for me it's between 153 and 163). I can now keep a 160 hr for most of my run.

As for your max HR most people recommend 220-AGE i wrote an excel that calculates your HR zones which i can email to you. there's also another formula (kavernoven's) which is based on your resting HR that I use.

Just try to stay aerobic as long as possible. and up your miles. I'm not sure you can make a marathon in 12 weeks though it is possible. I'm newer to running and wouldn't want to lead you astray there.

good luck! o matter what you do.

my boys could swim

echoing alot of what was said here already.

I don't feel you are doing enough mileage a week to try a 'thon in 12 weeks. Although it can be done, and I'm not saying you can't, but I wouldn't try it personally.

Higdon's beginner program was the basis for my first marathon, which coincidentaly, was also my fastest. I think the four days a week really helped me. I was more rested, and able to train harder (faster) on the days I did run.

I don't use HRM's, although many people love them, I don't see the need, I can tell if I'm working hard, or if I'm struggling. I can just tell. dunno

I would reccommend that you do the half that you mentioned, Higdon has some good half marathon workouts as well, and then set your sights on that spring marathon.

You must respect the marathon, if you don't, it'll kick your butt.

I wish you the best on your efforts, and hope that you will post your results.

Member

Running 12 miles/week and doing a marathon 12 weeks seems like a long shot. It is important to build endurance slowly to prevent injury.

Your running style sounds a lot like me about 4 years ago. My only experience running competitively was under 400 meters. I used the HRM to learn how to run slow, now I hardly ever need one because I am very much in tune with my running and effort level.

I run 5Ks and do a bit of speedwork, however, the most important goal is run high volume, that is, a lot of miles, even if it is slow. I imagine this would be even more important running 26.2!

Best of Luck.

Newbie

Is there a good online link explaining Furman's workouts?

How about a good vendor to purchase HRM's?

Thanks in advance.

Saccharomyces cerevisiae

http://www.heartratemonitorsusa.com is where I got mine.

HRMs, first marathons, clydesdales and Furman's workouts

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