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elkid
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 Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:34 Post subject: today's political theory distinction
Asked, so answered. Communism v. Socialism. Often confused as the same thing, but quite different. Thank you, Webster.
| Quote: | Main Entry: com·mu·nism
Pronunciation: 'käm-y&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French communisme, from commun common
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done |
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megawill
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:44 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| elkid wrote: | Asked, so answered. Communism v. Socialism. Often confused as the same thing, but quite different. Thank you, Webster.
| Quote: | Main Entry: com·mu·nism
Pronunciation: 'käm-y&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French communisme, from commun common
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done |
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many think of and confuse Stalinism as communism....
may I suggest reading Marx's Das Capital (it is a short book and should've been a must read somewhere along the line if you went to a decent school and took anything more than an introductory Politcal Sci or History course)...
---
megawill
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elkid
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:56 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| megawill wrote: | many think of and confuse Stalinism as communism....
may I suggest reading Marx's Das Capital (it is a short book and should've been a must read somewhere along the line if you went to a decent school and took anything more than an introductory Politcal Sci or History course)... |
Imperialists might, but Stalinism is different from Communism.
I have read Das Capital. I'm sure Stalin read it with The Communist Manifesto before he vitiated the Communist message. Maybe even some Adam Smith to play devil's advocate.
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genie
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:56 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| elkid wrote: | Asked, so answered. Communism v. Socialism. Often confused as the same thing, but quite different. Thank you, Webster.
| Quote: | Main Entry: com·mu·nism
Pronunciation: 'käm-y&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French communisme, from commun common
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done |
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Funny how that's the only difference. And, in your opinion, not Websters or some political pundit's, how is either of these options better than capitalism? (This is not just directed at elkid, anyone please feel free to answer)
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elkid
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:00 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| genie wrote: | | Funny how that's the only difference. And, in your opinion, not Websters or some political pundit's, how is either of these options better than capitalism? (This is not just directed at elkid, anyone please feel free to answer) |
I never said communism was better or worse than capitalism. I simply answered your question, and pointed out that communism is not liberal and that Canada isn't a communist form of government. I like capitalism, hell I thrive in it, but I also favor a Socialist ideology in terms of human services. Machiavellian politics are not necessarily healthy. But that's a whole other topic ....
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:02 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| genie wrote: |
Funny how that's the only difference. And, in your opinion, not Websters or some political pundit's, how is either of these options better than capitalism? (This is not just directed at elkid, anyone please feel free to answer) |
In theory I have always thought that many aspects of communism were quite compelling but I don't believe that any country has every been able to successfully put communism into place and have it work the way that the theory says it should.
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genie
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:03 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| elkid wrote: |
I never said communism was better or worse than capitalism. I simply answered your question, and pointed out that communism is not liberal and that Canada isn't a communist form of government. I like capitalism, hell I thrive in it, but I also favor a Socialist ideology in terms of human services. Machiavellian politics are not necessarily healthy. But that's a whole other topic .... |
Yes, I realize that Canada is socialist, not communist, that isn't the distinction I was trying to make with that remark. And I don't know that it is a whole other topic, really....now that the definitions are in print for everyone to see, I think that leads into the discussion of why people who support the liberal agenda do so. This thread was a spinoff of the original, isn't that how conversation evolves?
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genie
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:04 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| phillycat wrote: |
In theory I have always thought that many aspects of communism were quite compelling but I don't believe that any country has every been able to successfully put communism into place and have it work the way that the theory says it should. |
Well said, and although I don't agree with the first part on a personal level, I do see where you're coming from. I've heard that argued many times: that "true communism" and what is actually in place in other countries who call themselves communist are two entirely different things. Is that what you mean?
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Sahara
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:05 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| genie wrote: |
Funny how that's the only difference. And, in your opinion, not Websters or some political pundit's, how is either of these options better than capitalism? (This is not just directed at elkid, anyone please feel free to answer) |
Some (inlcuding me) would argue that a communist state, a pure communist state, takes care of all of its citizens even those who are disabled physically and mentally. Capitalism does not take into consideration those who are truly unable to help themselves.
These economic systems are theory, no? I can't readily think of an existing, unadulterated economic system for a country. There are muddying of all sorts, including of economic, political systems. That's real life.
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:08 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| genie wrote: |
Well said, and although I don't agree with the first part on a personal level, I do see where you're coming from. I've heard that argued many times: that "true communism" and what is actually in place in other countries who call themselves communist are two entirely different things. Is that what you mean? |
Yes, exactly
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:08 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| Sahara wrote: |
Some (inlcuding me) would argue that a communist state, a pure communist state, takes care of all of its citizens even those who are disabled physically and mentally. Capitalism does not take into consideration those who are truly unable to help themselves.
These economic systems are theory, no? I can't readily think of an existing, unadulterated economic system for a country. There are muddying of all sorts, including of economic, political systems. That's real life. |
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:10 Post subject:
I think a kibbutz comes closest to living breathing communism that isn't corrupt.
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elkid
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:10 Post subject: Re: today's political theory distinction
| genie wrote: | | now that the definitions are in print for everyone to see, I think that leads into the discussion of why people who support the liberal agenda do so. |
Huh? I'm not sure why you asking why liberal people follow a liberal agenda in a thread about Communism and Socialism. Please clarify.
Pure communism does exist - kabutzes. But what Sahara said.
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AlaninTX
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:16 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I think a kibbutz comes closest to living breathing communism that isn't corrupt. |
I agree with you.
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genie
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:17 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I think a kibbutz comes closest to living breathing communism that isn't corrupt. |
This is a serious question, because I know very little about them...how does that system work exactly and what keeps it from becoming corrupt, just the size or something else?
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