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runaroundsue
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 Posted: 10/26/04 - 17:13 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
Although I'll fully admit I will never be as competitive or able to be as competitive as you are, I definitely see where you'd feel that way. I probably would too if I was able to place/win, which just ain't gonna happen in this lifetime. Me, I'd be happy with my finishers medal, cuz it'd be all I could do to live to the end.  But for someone who's capable of way more, I can see how that would "stick in your craw" to quote our friend the Pugster.
So I guess this is an analogy to working for your SS money vs. merely reaping the benefits, getting back to the topic? |
that was my original thinking. I thought I'd relate it to running as this is a running board. Like capitalism....if there isn't a reward to reap, there isn't a desire to excel. Maybe a poor analogy.....but I believe it does resemble the collapse of communism in Russia. They knew they couldn't get ahead...so why try.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 17:24 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
The jealously? What does that word mean?
Your analogy is, among other things, flawed. There are plenty of people who put in high mileage weeks who will never come close to your high standards of accomplishment. High mileage does not overcome physiology and genetics. There are many 5+ hour marathoners on this website who would disagree that their ordeal was a "fun run".
How this relates to the ORIGINAL TOPIC I don't know.  |
hmmmmm don't remember saying that because it takes 5 hours means it's fun. My slowest marathon.....was NOT fun. I'm not trying to make light of people's efforts. My statement was that Disney is noted as being pretty much a race for the nonspeedy. There isn't any prize that would award "gifted" runners and therefore the "gifted" will go where there is an award.....such as Houston. The more money Houston awards, the slower the median time at Disney will get as they are both January marathons.
I really think high mileage is arbitrary. Some people think 60 miles is alot.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 21:55 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | Like capitalism....if there isn't a reward to reap, there isn't a desire to excel. Maybe a poor analogy.....but I believe it does resemble the collapse of communism in Russia. They knew they couldn't get ahead...so why try. |
Very good analogy. I like it sue and agree 100%.
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megawill
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 22:41 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Very good analogy. I like it sue and agree 100%. |
maybe I'm misunderstanding the point, but while I agree on the surface the Commie Russians did very well in world atheletic/olympic competition, so while the carrots in their system may not have been the same as ours they must have been there to some degree...otherwise they would have finished last in every race, huh?
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megawill
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Cappy
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 05:14 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: |
maybe I'm misunderstanding the point, but while I agree on the surface the Commie Russians did very well in world atheletic/olympic competition, so while the carrots in their system may not have been the same as ours they must have been there to some degree...otherwise they would have finished last in every race, huh?
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megawill |
But where have the Soviet Bloc athlete's been lately. They aren't nearly as dominant as they used to be.
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megawill
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 07:11 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: |
But where have the Soviet Bloc athlete's been lately. They aren't nearly as dominant as they used to be. |
and neither are the Americans in certain events...i.e., marathoning...
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 08:30 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: |
But where have the Soviet Bloc athlete's been lately. They aren't nearly as dominant as they used to be. |
I worked over in Russia right after the fall of communism and it was sad to say the least. The people did not know the first thing about how to work in a no-communist society. For example, I was working at a textile mill where the people were used to making meters and meters of fabric and having the government buy up everything. Style and quality didn't matter. When we came in and started scrutinizing the quality and explaining that certain colors and patterns were more marketable...they just didn't get it. All that being said, I would have to think that there must've been some similar issues going on with their athletes...they were no longer singled out for their athletic abilities and given all sorts of money and training by the government.
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Cappy
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 08:33 Post subject:
Interesting analogy cat. Interesting how the US government gives little or no money to atheletic programs, and the US does pretty well on its own
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 08:35 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: | | Interesting analogy cat. Interesting how the US government gives little or no money to atheletic programs, and the US does pretty well on its own |
I agree. It reminds me of Rocky IV where he fights the Russian!
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elkid
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 08:55 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | that was my original thinking. I thought I'd relate it to running as this is a running board. Like capitalism....if there isn't a reward to reap, there isn't a desire to excel. Maybe a poor analogy.....but I believe it does resemble the collapse of communism in Russia. They knew they couldn't get ahead...so why try. |
1) Based solely on extrinsic values, sure. Some people think differently.
2) The collapse of communism in the USSR would've been a different thing had not the US been involved. But another topic.
| runaroundsue wrote: | | I really think high mileage is arbitrary. Some people think 60 miles is alot. |
It's not? I'd say 60+ is pretty high on top of all the various life commitments one may had. I do agree that how one perceives it is arbitrary. Doing 60M at a sub 7 pace is a completely different animal than doing 60M at 10mm or better. The sheer time commitment alone makes it more difficult. Yet however fast or slow you run, there still is a huge difference between communism and socialism.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 09:06 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
It's not? I'd say 60+ is pretty high on top of all the various life commitments one may had. I do agree that how one perceives it is arbitrary. Doing 60M at a sub 7 pace is a completely different animal than doing 60M at 10mm or better. The sheer time commitment alone makes it more difficult. Yet however fast or slow you run, there still is a huge difference between communism and socialism. |
agree on all points 
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RexRacer
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 09:12 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | Like capitalism....if there isn't a reward to reap, there isn't a desire to excel. |
Sue, it comes down to what you value as rewards. I think that citizens of the wealthiest nation in the world (a shoddy standard but frequently cited) should expect as a fundamental baseline access to what are considered the basic standards of a healthy and productive life: universal (not determined by zip code) quality public education, healthy food and drinking water, a clean enviroment, access to quality medical care, and hell, might as well go all the way, as was proposed in the Nixon administration (last true liberal president) a minimum level of family income.
Once the fundamental needs of everyone (ala Maslow's hierarchy) in society have been adequately met, then those dedicated high achievers and well-born out there can feel free to fight like cats-and-dogs for the remaining loot. I have no problem with someone making 40 million a year, or more. I just wonder why they couldn't be satisfied with a little less so that the basics of everyone in society could be covered. Is 30 million not enough to live on for a single guy let alone family of four?
And lest anyone forget, even during the highest taxation periods in our history (WWII and shortly thereafter) there were lots and lots of high achieving and wealthy people. Just ask the Mellons, Carnegies and DuPonts.
In the Soviet system, the rewards were focused solely through the one-party state apparatus that controlled the goodies. It was hijacked by the Stalinists who used their control of the police and military in a time of serious external threat to consolidate their power and those of their allies. (Hm . . . I'll let everyone else complete the obvious allusion).
It was nothing like the worker controlled system that communist theory advocated.
So lets combine the Disney and Houston marathons, to refer back to your analogy. The fast people start up front and run like hell and medal, but everyone should have a shot at finishing in their best personal time, even if they choose to, or are only able, to walk.
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