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keltic63
the kilted one
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 Posted: 12/04/04 - 09:52 Post subject: this has me thinking....
elkid's thread about a bus driver being fired for "talking" about an article and my thread in which a major network refuses to air an ad because of percieved controversy both seem to have at their basis, the desire to control free speech. Both issues mentioned are ones that the present administration opposes in some way, yet the people involved in the "censorship" are in no way connected to the federal gov't.
is this a trend? are we afraid to speak out for the things in which we believe? and what are we afraid of? or in this case, what is the school district, or the network afraid of?
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elkid
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 10:12 Post subject: Re: this has me thinking....
No, it's been happening for some time now.
| Quote: | | Are we afraid to speak out for the things in which we believe? |
As a society, yes. Me personally, no, but as a whole we are.
| Quote: | | And what are we afraid of? |
Retribution. Looking different.
| Quote: | | or in this case, what is the school district, or the network afraid of? |
Trying to make all parties happy will never work, but some still try to make it work.
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gretriever
Hipster Doofus
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 10:13 Post subject:
The school district could make the (tenuous?) argument that they do receive Federal funding, and so for an employee to take a stand on an issue contrary to goverment rules (plausible, though weak) or Administration POLICY, not rule (implausible, and scary) could jeopardize said funding.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 10:40 Post subject:
g-dog,
I would agree with that understanding, but then.....alot of these elementary schools held "mock elections" not that long ago, and I would think that act alone opened the door for politics and opinions into the young minds of our children.
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prohemp
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 10:51 Post subject:
If I'm "reading" the bus driver incident correctly, her views are in tune with the current administration - that non embryonic stem cell research has had more success than embryonic stem cell.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 10:58 Post subject:
| prohemp wrote: | | If I'm "reading" the bus driver incident correctly, her views are in tune with the current administration - that non embryonic stem cell research has had more success than embryonic stem cell. |
yes, it certainly sounds that way.....I think I may have misconstrued that as I was writing. Then the point becomes not only a fear of disagreeing, but even a fear of talking about the issues.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 11:14 Post subject:
Free speech is one thing, but living in the 'real world' often reflects the adage "it is better to be silent and thought to be a fool than open your mouth and prove so".
There's a time and place for everything, including 'speech'. The premise of wanting to say anything, anywhere comes across like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum. 
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gretriever
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 12:46 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | g-dog,
I would agree with that understanding, but then.....alot of these elementary schools held "mock elections" not that long ago, and I would think that act alone opened the door for politics and opinions into the young minds of our children. |
I will age myself here, but... that's been going on for a long time.
In (gasp!) 1962, our second grade class was doing the election thing, and not just for President. The teacher asked one kid who he was going to vote for for governor. He said "Adolph Wiggert." Teacher (remember, this is second grade, this is 1962): "Who the hell is Adolph Wiggert?" Kid: "He's running for governor." The teacher sent him home for the day. So that politics in the classroom sort of stuff is not a recent phenomenon.
P.S. - In 1962, there was an Adolph Wiggert who ran for governor of Wisconsin. He got about a thousand votes.
P.P.S. - I was not the kid in above story.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 12:59 Post subject:
The teacher said "Who the hell?" Nice.
What I object to is not that there isn't a time and a place for free speech, perhaps there is, but I don't want to be told when that is. We already have lots of things we can't say: We can't yell "fire" in a movie theater or create a safety threat. We can't have the Klan setting fire to a cross on my front lawn (although they can do it on their own front lawn b/c in addition to intimidation, cross burning is also a type of identity-solidarity building tactic). We're not federally funding obscenity.
But ideas? We're apparently freaked out by ideas, so that professors (on both sides of the spectrum) on a college campus are hassled, if not fired, for speaking their minds or even for creating an atmosphere in which ideas can be explored. The value of the academy is the exploration of ideas.
When we start to be very concerned about mere discussion, that's a good sign that we're in or headed into a very repressive state. It makes me nervous.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 13:11 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | What I object to is not that there isn't a time and a place for free speech, perhaps there is... |
And that's all I'm getting at. Do we really need to be a 'culture' (notice I'm not talking legalities here, just sociology) where all topics, all discussions, all profanities, extremes and radicals are embraced all the time? Is there no room for respect, understanding and simplicity in being civil with each other and temper your speech? Congress, Supreme Court and founding fathers aside, can't we strive for a culture where "in your face" isn't the default way to politicize something? Is it always necessary to protest, prophesize and propagate to get a point across?
I guess I function so much of my life at the one-on-one level that issues like this only fit the context that way. I'll agree with you much of the time of free speech from a mile high perspective, but in day-to-day contexts, there's the nervousness I see in that people are losing the finesse of 'talking' and 'listening'.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 14:30 Post subject:
The thing about free speech that many forget (especially those at the polar ends of their beliefs/political stands) is that we need to defend to the death the rights of people we disagree with to say what they want to say.
It's hard to swallow but very important to actually do.
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