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wanttorun100
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 Posted: 03/31/06 - 14:39 Post subject: there's hope for the 'utes of America!
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/122555
A bunch of students raised a mexican flag at the High School - another group of students lowered the mexican flag , burned it and rasied the American flag!
they should have rasied this one right under Old Glory!
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airehead
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Posted: 03/31/06 - 14:53 Post subject:
I disagree with burning any nation's flag, that is flat out disrespectful. I don't want mine burned nor will I condone the burning of another. If I have patriotism that is inspired by my flag, I assume the same of other nations.
What those kids did was correct UP UNTIL THEY BURNED THE FLAG. That was just inciteful and petty.
Even if those students raised the flag above Ol' Glory, the proper thing would be to lower them both and then raise America's flag again.
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gretriever
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Posted: 03/31/06 - 15:34 Post subject:
That's a pretty crappy piece of journalism. And I don't mean because of the incident, or any political slant taken. I refer to the article as a piece of news reporting.
It's a very incomplete story. Let's look at some of the questions that should have been asked by the Star, but were not -
- It is inferred that the U.S. flag was lowered, the Mexican flag was placed above it, and both were raised. Was this what actually happened?
- If the American flag had already been raised by the custodial staff (that's who usually did that stuff when I was in school, and I'm guessing they still are), why wasn't the chain/rope/whatever the flag attached to secured in such a way that students could not work the flagpole?
- If they hadn't raised the flag yet (as this occured before the start of classes, this is a possibilty), how were the students (once again) able to raise the flag?
| Quote: | Freshman Chelsea Garcia, 15, and junior Brittany Ramage, 16, said the unrest had more to do with long-running racial tensions at the school.
The week's events might have sparked some anger, Ramage said, "but kids aren't too deep about that stuff." |
-Which is it - long-running tension, events that might have led to the incident, or kids who aren't too deep about the issues?
These aside, the school is doing a bad job of this issue. Added police presence for a couple of days? What about telling the parents to lay down the law with their kids? What about holding parents responsible for this stuff? How about enforcing some truancy penalties? They better get their act together - all parties, parents, school, law enforcement, media - or something will happen to make Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold look like rank amateurs.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 03/31/06 - 16:12 Post subject:
still it's good to see kids that have the stones to set things right
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airehead
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Posted: 03/31/06 - 16:44 Post subject:
| gretriever wrote: | That's a pretty crappy piece of journalism. And I don't mean because of the incident, or any political slant taken. I refer to the article as a piece of news reporting.
It's a very incomplete story. Let's look at some of the questions that should have been asked by the Star, but were not -
- It is inferred that the U.S. flag was lowered, the Mexican flag was placed above it, and both were raised. Was this what actually happened?
- If the American flag had already been raised by the custodial staff (that's who usually did that stuff when I was in school, and I'm guessing they still are), why wasn't the chain/rope/whatever the flag attached to secured in such a way that students could not work the flagpole?
- If they hadn't raised the flag yet (as this occured before the start of classes, this is a possibilty), how were the students (once again) able to raise the flag?
| Quote: | Freshman Chelsea Garcia, 15, and junior Brittany Ramage, 16, said the unrest had more to do with long-running racial tensions at the school.
The week's events might have sparked some anger, Ramage said, "but kids aren't too deep about that stuff." |
-Which is it - long-running tension, events that might have led to the incident, or kids who aren't too deep about the issues?
These aside, the school is doing a bad job of this issue. Added police presence for a couple of days? What about telling the parents to lay down the law with their kids? What about holding parents responsible for this stuff? How about enforcing some truancy penalties? They better get their act together - all parties, parents, school, law enforcement, media - or something will happen to make Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold look like rank amateurs. |
In an article I read the flagpole was stationed by the Naval ROTC department where the students do the job of raisining and lowering the flags. Up to this point they don't know if the ROTC students were involved at all.
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 04/02/06 - 09:40 Post subject:
while i understand that flag burning is a "Freedom of Speech" issue, I'm still against it. While i was in the Army i was told the Flag should be treated as a "LIVING" representation of the nation. I extend this to respect to all countries as well. it was wrong for them to raise the flag above Old Glory in the first place. Burning the Mexican flag was over responding though.
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 04/02/06 - 16:07 Post subject:
Flags are often burned as a political statement by various groups for political reasons. The U.S. flag is probably the most burned flag in the world at least in news media files. It has often been burned at anti-war rallies even in the U.S.
I do not belive the U.S. flag is a "living" representation of the U.S. It is a symbol. Nothing dies when someone burns a U.S. flag. And as a symbol it means different things to different people, just as the Mexican Flag goes.
And I am firmly against any legislation making it a crime to burn the American flag as a form of political protest. The flaming American flags at Vietnam anti-war protests helped bring about the U.S. government's finally deciding to end the war, although it meant the eventual fall of South Vietnam. If we have to protect the U.S. flag by law, then it's symbolism drops dramatically.
As far as the students burning the Mexican Flag, I can't disagree with what the American students did if the Mexican students disrespected the American Flag in a U.S. public school where our tax dollars are paying for them to attend school.
I'm sure you won't find American students in Mexico (and there are a few) disrespecting the Mexican Flag and not being punished.
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airehead
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Posted: 04/02/06 - 17:32 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | Flags are often burned as a political statement by various groups for political reasons. The U.S. flag is probably the most burned flag in the world at least in news media files. It has often been burned at anti-war rallies even in the U.S.
I do not belive the U.S. flag is a "living" representation of the U.S. It is a symbol. Nothing dies when someone burns a U.S. flag. And as a symbol it means different things to different people, just as the Mexican Flag goes.
And I am firmly against any legislation making it a crime to burn the American flag as a form of political protest. The flaming American flags at Vietnam anti-war protests helped bring about the U.S. government's finally deciding to end the war, although it meant the eventual fall of South Vietnam. If we have to protect the U.S. flag by law, then it's symbolism drops dramatically.
As far as the students burning the Mexican Flag, I can't disagree with what the American students did if the Mexican students disrespected the American Flag in a U.S. public school where our tax dollars are paying for them to attend school.
I'm sure you won't find American students in Mexico (and there are a few) disrespecting the Mexican Flag and not being punished. |
Two wrongs never make a right.
1. The Mexican students allegedly disrespecting the US flag
2. The other students burning another nation's flag.
What ever happened to class and diginity as a first resort rather than escalation? Flags are very symbolic and important or else it would be meaningless to burn one in protest. I think those students needlessly escalated a situation.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 04/02/06 - 23:30 Post subject:
I just cann't quite think of anything that makes the statement quite as well as burning the mexican flag
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 04/03/06 - 08:01 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | I just cann't quite think of anything that makes the statement quite as well as burning the mexican flag |
Well I have to agree is makes quite a statement about the people who did it and those who support it.
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karlene
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Posted: 04/06/06 - 15:11 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | still it's good to see kids that have the stones to set things right |
'set things right' ?
How so? by burning a flag?
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msparks
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Posted: 04/06/06 - 15:47 Post subject:
| airehead wrote: |
Two wrongs never make a right.
1. The Mexican students allegedly disrespecting the US flag
2. The other students burning another nation's flag.
What ever happened to class and diginity as a first resort rather than escalation? Flags are very symbolic and important or else it would be meaningless to burn one in protest. I think those students needlessly escalated a situation. |
As far as the 'utes of America, there's always hope.
I hope that these yoooooothze understand that, indeed, two wrongs do not make a right.
I hope that these <ahem> students, understand (or will soon learn) that there are consequences for their actions.
Now, as far as any "Mexican students allegedly disrespecting the US flag" (they were described in the article as Hispanics), if they truly did it - lowered the American flag and replaced it with the Mexican flag - then there's no "alleged" to it. It simply IS disrespectful. Just as disrespectful as burning the Mexican flag.
| Quote: | | What ever happened to class and diginity as a first resort rather than escalation? |
The reported ages were 15 and 16. We really shouldn't be surprised that something like this happened. That's to say, they're not exactly adults. Then again, adults don't always act with class and dignity.
But I have hope that these 'utes learn a little of both...class and dignity. And for good measure, how 'bout a little respect?
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