the latest Democratic October suprise
|
|
 
|
|
|
|
|
|
wanttorun100
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 4946
Location: Just to the right of Atilla the Hun!
|
| Back to top
|
|
 Posted: 10/05/06 - 16:16 Post subject: the latest Democratic October suprise
aka the Foley thing
pretty weak I'd have to say turns out it's just a closet gay congresscrittter hitting on a young adult gay man
|
|
|
|
|
andydp
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 8122
Location: Upstate NY near Albany
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/05/06 - 16:39 Post subject:
Why would the "Foley thing" surprise you ? Its Washington and its politics. Tell me what politico red or blue would not jump at the chance to plaster any scandal involving the other party all over that city.
The Republicans would be having a field day with this if Foley was a Democrat (RINO don't count). Rush, Fox and everyone else would be screaming for his genitalia, and publicising the lack of "Moral Values" ad nauseam.
Despite the fact it may turn out the pages were over 18, there is still a sleaze factor (like it was with Clinton) in the issue. Plus, if you are concerned about the moral values issue, what does it say about your district if a gay man is representing it ? Doesn't that make you as "heaten" as Massachusetts ? (Apologies to Keltic)
If it does come out the House Leadership and the appropriate committees knew about this years ago why wasn't anything done ? That's where the issue is going to concentrate itself on.
|
|
|
|
|
wanttorun100
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 4946
Location: Just to the right of Atilla the Hun!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/05/06 - 16:40 Post subject:
mostly it suprises me after they got bit with the fake President Bush ANG documants they keep going to the well
not the sharpest tools in the shed are they ...
|
|
|
|
|
airehead
Oompa Loofah
|
|
|
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 18788
Location: Between here and eternity...
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/05/06 - 16:43 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | Why would the "Foley thing" surprise you ? Its Washington and its politics. Tell me what politico red or blue would not jump at the chance to plaster any scandal involving the other party all over that city.
The Republicans would be having a field day with this if Foley was a Democrat (RINO don't count). Rush, Fox and everyone else would be screaming for his genitalia, and publicising the lack of "Moral Values" ad nauseam.
Despite the fact it may turn out the pages were over 18, there is still a sleaze factor (like it was with Clinton) in the issue. Plus, if you are concerned about the moral values issue, what does it say about your district if a gay man is representing it ? Doesn't that make you as "heaten" as Massachusetts ? (Apologies to Keltic)
If it does come out the House Leadership and the appropriate committees knew about this years ago why wasn't anything done ? That's where the issue is going to concentrate itself on. |
There are some news outlets that are saying it may have all been fake...
|
|
|
|
|
andydp
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 8122
Location: Upstate NY near Albany
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/05/06 - 16:47 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | mostly it suprises me after they got bit with the fake President Bush ANG documants they keep going to the well
not the sharpest tools in the shed are they ... |
I'm sure this time they looked everything over with a fine tooth comb. Plus, lots of this has been corroborated by a former chief of staff to some Republican Reps. Not by a disgruntled opposite party person.
Dan Blather was so hepped up on finding a purported document that outlined GW's non participation he overlooked the sacred news source dictum: Never accept a copy - always the original. Anyone with any military background and a good knowledge of typewriters would have known that was a fake.
|
|
|
|
|
GaRebelRunner
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 1097
Location: Tucker, GA
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 06:43 Post subject:
Ok, I'll bite. How does this bad judgment on the part of Republican House leadership reflect at all on the Democrats? All the players thus far are Republicans. The House leadership was informed of the allegations and did as little as possible to investigate choosing instead to merely look the other way. They could have easily launched an investigation as to whether or not this was an isolated incident which may indeed have deserved the benefit of doubt on the part of Mark Foley.
Or did it represent a pattern. More and more former pages are now coming forward about emails they received from Mark Foley.
It doesn't seem to me he has actually committed any criminal acts based on released email and txt messages thus for. IMHO Mark Foley should have given the voters the opportunity to decide whether or not his indiscretions were serious or not. It wasn't a particularly big secret that he was gay.
You're doing your normal Democratic Party bashing with no facts that I can see.
|
|
|
|
|
wanttorun100
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 4946
Location: Just to the right of Atilla the Hun!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 07:06 Post subject:
You goota be jokeing - the original e-mails were creepy but not overly so - once the really creepy stuff didn't come till a few days ago
however at least we know the Dems thing an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do
|
|
|
|
|
andydp
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 8122
Location: Upstate NY near Albany
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 07:44 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | You goota be jokeing - the original e-mails were creepy but not overly so - once the really creepy stuff didn't come till a few days ago
however at least we know the Dems thing an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do |
I fail to understand:
Its OK in your mind for a 50 year old man to write to a young guy who is basically a "ward" of the Congress and ask for photos, comment on his physique and make other sorts of implications ? I'ts OK ? Why ? At what point do they stop being not "overly" creepy. Its OK becusae of his party affiliation ?
How would you have felt when you were 17 -18 if you got messages like that ? Would you like it if your 18 year old son (or daughter) got messages like that from a 50 year old ?
|
|
|
|
|
robp
Pyromaniac
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16242
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 07:49 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | You goota be jokeing - the original e-mails were creepy but not overly so - once the really creepy stuff didn't come till a few days ago
however at least we know the Dems thing an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do |
I fail to understand:
Its OK in your mind for a 50 year old man to write to a young guy who is basically a "ward" of the Congress and ask for photos, comment on his physique and make other sorts of implications ? I'ts OK ? Why ? At what point do they stop being not "overly" creepy. Its OK becusae of his party affiliation ?
How would you have felt when you were 17 -18 if you got messages like that ? Would you like it if your 18 year old son (or daughter) got messages like that from a 50 year old ? |
Morally I do not find his actions offensive. The question is did he do anything illegal. From the sounds of it he didn't. And to be honest w/you, after reading some of the IM crap - the kid wasn't feeling threatened, he appeared to be enjoying the attention.
|
|
|
|
|
andydp
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 8122
Location: Upstate NY near Albany
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 07:55 Post subject:
I realize if the kids were over 16 or 18 then its not "illegal" but the sleaze factor (a la Lewinski) is there. I may add one of the transcripts shows him inviting a "minor" (under 21) to his house for drinks. I know for a fact that is illegal in all 50 states. Wether it happened is another matter.
I think the issue in now drifting towards how much did the heirarchy know, when did they know it and so on.
|
|
|
|
|
robp
Pyromaniac
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16242
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 08:28 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | I realize if the kids were over 16 or 18 then its not "illegal" but the sleaze factor (a la Lewinski) is there. I may add one of the transcripts shows him inviting a "minor" (under 21) to his house for drinks. I know for a fact that is illegal in all 50 states. Wether it happened is another matter.
I think the issue in now drifting towards how much did the heirarchy know, when did they know it and so on. |
I certainly don't disagree w/you on the sleaze factor.
As far as what the heirarchy knows - if the guy wasn't breaking any laws there probably wasnt' anythign that could officially be done about it.
|
|
|
|
|
Wicked Flea
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 365
Location: Hair of the Dog
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 08:46 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | however at least we know the Dems thing an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do |
You really believe that is what the Dems think this case is about?
Excerpts from The Radical Right, the Myth of the Gay Child Abuser, and You
by Carol Norris
"As soon as the Foley story broke, I knew it was just a matter of time. Sure enough, The People for the American Way reported that Tony Perkins, of the Family Research Council, said the real concern about Foley’s sexual predatory behavior toward an underage congressional page is “the link between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.” Not just Perkins, many other right wing mouthpieces are disgorging similar rhetoric.
The radical right, at the helm of its mighty cutter boat, the U.S.S. Wedge Issue, is chipping and tacking its way through the towns and psyches of our country yet again. I’d yawn at such a hackneyed conflation - homosexuality equals child sexual abuse - but those guys’ll take advantage of any opening they can get and I feel sure they’d ram the bow of their boat right through my mouth on its way to the voting booths in November. Besides, I know that cutter can do some serious damage.
Perkins goes on to say that ignoring the “homosexuality issue” got the Catholic Church in trouble and now it’s getting the House GOPs in a big mess....
Were I the parent or a loved one of one the pages, I would feel outraged and betrayed. Being a citizen who demands that my leaders step into their humanity and beyond self-interested politics when an issue as serious as this begs for it, I feel outraged and betrayed, yet not surprised. And, I’d be writing these same words were it a Democrat who allegedly perpetrated this abuse. Our children’s safety and well-being are not the stuff of a political match. Ever.
Let’s get some child abuse facts straight.
Child sexual abuse (and sexual abuse in general) usually has nothing to do with sex, but with power and control.
Child sexual abuse takes many forms and is not just about touch and penetration. You don’t have to be in the same room with a child to sexually abuse him or her. Whether it is cyber, verbal or physical, it’s serious and should be taken seriously. You can’t possibly pretend to know how an email exchange from an older, more powerful adult will impact each kid.
Adolescents, even if on the cusp of stepping into their sexual selves or if already there, can be profoundly psychologically impacted by sexual abuse. Same with adults.
Child sexual abuse cuts across all strata of the population.
Having said that, studies show that men sexually abuse children more then women and most child sexual abuse is perpetrated by straight, not gay, men.
The majority of child sexual abuse happens not by the stranger on the street your mother tells you not to talk to, but by someone you know – a trusted family member, a neighbor, a congressman down the hall.
Not only is the gay-man-as-child-abuser myth as worn and tired as it is hateful and damaging, in this case it’s such an obvious attempt at, “Hey, look over there at the gay sex pervert and not over here at the mechanisms that helped create the scandal and at us who covered it up,” it’s almost pitiable.
The subject brings up many an offshoot issue that isn’t within the scope of this article. And, I haven’t seen Foley in therapy, of course, so I don’t pretend to know the depths of his psyche. But that isn’t the issue. What matters is that we take Perkins’ advice and not ignore the “homosexuality issue.”
Let’s ask our congressional Democrats to take this opportunity to speak out against gay stereotyping. Let’s let them know that we expect more of them than just seeing the Foley incident as yet another Republican scandal set to help them in the upcoming midterm elections.
Better yet, let’s all of us: Independents, Democrats, Republicans, Greens, teachers, preachers, parents, gays, straights, bisexuals, you name its, and each person reading, seize this opportunity ourselves as a teachable moment. Let’s not ignore what they want us to ignore. Let’s take this occasion to speak out and say that not only is the cover up and thus the aiding and abetting of sexual abuse as wrong as the abuse itself, but let’s talk about the fact that Foley’s actions are not so much the act of a gay man, but the act of a troubled human being in a system that actively discourages help and transparency. Let’s all be mouthpieces that say we’re too smart to buy into such an insultingly thinly-veiled, homophobic diversionary tactic. Let’s talk about how Congress and Perkins and the self-interested radical right folks riding the choppy political waters on the U.S.S. Wedge Issue are busily ignoring the real issues, and in so doing not only gay men, but our children and each and every one of us the world over are done inexcusable harm."
|
|
|
|
|
keltic63
the kilted one
|
|
|
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 8574
Location: under the weather
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 08:49 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | however at least we know the Dems thing(k?) an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do |
since when are Dems not considered "normal"?
and shouldn't your statement be 'at least we know many people agree that an older adult hitting on an underage person is creepy' ?
|
|
|
|
|
wanttorun100
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 4946
Location: Just to the right of Atilla the Hun!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 08:58 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | | however at least we know the Dems thing(k?) an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do |
since when are Dems not considered "normal"?
and shouldn't your statement be 'at least we know many people agree that an older adult hitting on an underage person is creepy' ? |
well I've always thought dems were a bit off - the Foley thing was just double creepy I guess
|
|
|
|
|
andydp
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 8122
Location: Upstate NY near Albany
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/06/06 - 11:34 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | | however at least we know the Dems thing(k?) an older gay man hitting on a young gay man is creepy like normal people do |
since when are Dems not considered "normal"?
and shouldn't your statement be 'at least we know many people agree that an older adult hitting on an underage person is creepy' ? |
well I've always thought dems were a bit off - the Foley thing was just double creepy I guess |
Please explain "a bit off" ? The Foley thing is a bit creepy. I'm glad you're realizing it.
|
|
|
|
| |
All times are GMT - 4 Hours
|
| Page 1 of 2 |
Related topics: | Hillary Clinton --> Democratic VP nominee?
The Democratic Candidate
Democratic Implosion
Tuesday 26 October 2004
Monday, October 25
Sunday 24 October 2004
Saturday 23 October 2004
Thursday 21 October 2004
Monday 18 October 2004
Sunday 17 October 2004
October summaries
First house payment due October 1st.
Monthly Mileage Memos: October 2004
Friday 29 October 2004
October 4th 2003
Running Times, October Issue
[b]Race for the Cure [/b]October 12 Phoenix AZ
Monday, October 6th
Monthly Mileage Memos: October 2003
Sunday, October 29th, 2006
Friday 01 October 2004
It's October 1st, what does it mean.......
Saturday 02 October 2004
October is almost here...
Thursday 28 October 2004
Tuesday 05 October 2004
Thursday 07 October 2004
Rattle Me Bones -- Ottawa October 24
Friday 08 October 2004
Saturday 09 October 2004
Sunday 10 October 2004
I know it is October but...
Saturday October 30th, 2004
Sunday, October 31st 2004
According to our research, you'll be dead by October 2046
Early October looks like it's gonna hurt
Charlotte NC October 1-3 Any races
If you have tix for the Munich Octoberfest
Octoberfest News Part Deux
Saturday October 1
Saturday 01 October 2005
Sunday 02 October 2005
Monday 03 October 2005
who are these crazy people - baseball in october
Masochism 101 Wed October 5, 2005
Friday 07 October 2005
Saturday 08 October 2005
Monday - October 10, 2005
Tuesday 11 October 2005
Friday 14 October 2005
Sunday 16 October 2005
Tuesday 18 October 2005
Friday 21 October 2005
Saturday 22 October 2005
Sunday 23 October 2005
Friday 28 October 2005
Saturday 29 October 2005
Sunday 30 October 2005
Monthly Mileage Memo: October 2005
October-November Half Marathon?
Anyone busy on October 7 at 7 AM
Sunday 1 October 2006
Monday 2 October 2006
October Surprise
Friday 06 October 2006
Friday 20 October 2006
Sunday 08 October 2006
Monday 9 October 2006
Tuesday 10 October 2006
Wednesday 11 October 2006
snow in October
The Republican "October Surprise"
Masochism 101 Wednesday October 11
Friday 13 October 2006
Saturday 14 October 2006
Thursday 19 October 2006
Sunday 15 October 2006
Monday 16 October 2006
Wednesday 18 October 2006
Saturday 21 October 2006
Sunday 22 October 2006
Monday 23 October 2006
Tuesday 24 October 2006
Wednesday 25 October 2006
Thursday 26 October 2006
Summary for October 2006
Olympic Champ Dieter Baumann On October Frankfurt Marathon
This doesn't suprise me
|
|
|
