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Gogirlgo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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 Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:30 Post subject: oil
Yesterday I heard on NPR a report on how there's apparently much less oil in Saudi Arabia than America believes there is. This revelation came from the fact that America had asked OPEC to open it up a little, that is, to produce more to cut the price, since everyone is freaking about how much it will cost to keep us warm this winter. The response from OPEC, was pretty much "Do it yourself." What was interesting in this particular report is that you almost never a high-level minister publicly disagree with a country, but here was a senior minister stating that America has totally overestimated the amount of oil there is in the Kingdom.
This puts us in an interesting quandary, not just b/c it means there will be pressure to drill for oil in what is now protected space, but b/c it forces us to consider that there really isn't much oil left.
How will your life change if you have to pay astronomic sums for oil? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:32 Post subject:
2 things.
1. Take advantage of living in the city by limiting the use of our car and using public transportation more.
2. Figure out what I can do as an individual to try and get the gov't to look to alternative energy sources.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:33 Post subject: Re: oil
| Gogirlgo wrote: | This puts us in an interesting quandary, not just b/c it means there will be pressure to drill for oil in what is now protected space, but b/c it forces us to consider that there really isn't much oil left.
How will your life change if you have to pay astronomic sums for oil? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. |
I think about this a lot living in very car-centered Houston. My life personally wouldn't change much, I live very close to lots of decent public transportation, 2 miles from my job and not much more to my school, church, store, etc. I'm a very rare case in Houston though. And, as vested in the petroleum industry as we are, this city would fold if this is true.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:42 Post subject:
I would try to make a move to more public transportation. We have limited light rail options here, but there is a line coming to the Mall of America, which isn't too far from where i live. I might have to adjust my hours to catch the bus and walk a bit more to and from the bus stop.
I don't drive terribly far if we don't count work, but that 40 mile drive to go to Fazoli's would be out of the window.
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elkid
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:42 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | 2 things.
1. Take advantage of living in the city by limiting the use of our car and using public transportation more.
2. Figure out what I can do as an individual to try and get the gov't to look to alternative energy sources. |
 Except with SEPTA's proposed plan I'd be stranded on weekends and after 9pm weekdays.
And I'd get rid of The Paramedic's Pathfinder and replace it with a hybrid.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:43 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
Except with SEPTA's proposed plan I'd be stranded on weekends and after 9pm weekdays.
And I'd get rid of The Paramedic's Pathfinder and replace it with a hybrid. |
And my next car would be very fuel efficient.
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runaroundsue
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Location: supporting GREENer pastures
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:46 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | 2 things.
1. Take advantage of living in the city by limiting the use of our car and using public transportation more.
2. Figure out what I can do as an individual to try and get the gov't to look to alternative energy sources. |
I was thinking of the same thing.....regardless, of how much oil their is in the world. We aren't making full use of wind, water. If we had the drilling in our own backyards, would we complain about the shadows that wind energy sources create?
the public transportation is a little bit different for rural areas and even some smaller suburban. It's like what is a bus? taxi? I also blame urban planning....what happened to the neigborhood groceries? I live in the city and my children "aren't" in walking distance of an elementary school. PPP
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:48 Post subject:
We have known this was coming since President Carter's days in office. No administration after his encouraged alternative fuel research. Too many people are making money in the oil industry to worry about other sources of energy. The only ideas the current administration shares is to drill for more oil, rather than commit the funds necessary to put efforts into fuel resources that are more plentiful. And that would provide a more permanent solution.
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:51 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: |
I was thinking of the same thing.....regardless, of how much oil their is in the world. We aren't making full use of wind, water. If we had the drilling in our own backyards, would we complain about the shadows that wind energy sources create?
the public transportation is a little bit different for rural areas and even some smaller suburban. It's like what is a bus? taxi? I also blame urban planning....what happened to the neigborhood groceries? I live in the city and my children "aren't" in walking distance of an elementary school. PPP |
I agree with the point you make about public transporation in rural and suburban areas. I think more of an effort needs to be made to bring safe and clean public transportation to these areas. Another issues is fuel use during the colder months in some of the Northern states. Growing up in Michigan we used to (and my family still does) go out and "warm up" our car....we would turn on the car and let it run while we would go back inside and finish getting ready. Usually the car would run for about 15 to 20 minutes! Amazes me now when I think about it! 
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sonnylax
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Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:54 Post subject:
| Quote: | | We have known this was coming since President Carter's days in office. No administration after his encouraged alternative fuel research. Too many people are making money in the oil industry to worry about other sources of energy. The only ideas the current administration shares is to drill for more oil, rather than commit the funds necessary to put efforts into fuel resources that are more plentiful. And that would provide a more permanent solution. |
Come on GRR. That is a big stretch and you know it. Every president since Carter has allocated budget dollars to researching/developing alternative fuel sources. Maybe its not enough, but judging by your previous opinion there are alot of things not federally funded enough for your tastes (i.e. AIDS research).
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sonnylax
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Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:56 Post subject:
Don't forget that Hybrids aren't necessarily cost effective for the mass consumer market. They cost several thousand dollars more then a normal gas car and it would take many years for you to finacially make up the difference. Consumer guru Clark Howard notes this on his web site:
| Quote: | Hybrids flooding into the country - October 15, 2004
Clark saw a report recently that the average fill up for an SUV is $50. That’s unbelievable to Clark, who fills up his hybrid vehicle about every 500 miles. It takes about 12 gallons, and he loves the gas mileage he gets because gas is so expensive these days. The good news is that automakers are increasing the number of hybrids they’re building each year. Toyota, for example, is increasing the number of hybrids it ships to the U.S. to 100,000. That doesn’t come close to reaching today’s demand, but originally Toyota was planning to sell between 20,000 and 25,000 a year. The company is even thinking of converting plants in the U.S. into hybrid vehicle plants. The Kentucky and Indiana plants are the two most likely to be converted. In past years, experts predicted that hybrid vehicles would account for less than one percent of the cars in the United States. Today, they estimate that one out of five people in the U.S. will drive a hybrid car. However, as you look at vehicles that you’re interested in buying, know that a hybrid is still not a smart purchase for most. A gas car is several thousand dollars cheaper, and it would take more than a decade to make up the difference. So, make sure it’s a smart purchase for you. |
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:59 Post subject:
And it's not just paying directly for oil at the consumer level. Virtually everything we use in this country is transported by truck. Use of railroads has been shrunk to miniscule amounts compared to historic levels because of all the trucking. The price of diesel fuel is going to skyrocket the price of everything you buy.
The sooner we get out of OPEC's pocket the better.
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Running Brewer
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:14 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | And it's not just paying directly for oil at the consumer level. Virtually everything we use in this country is transported by truck. Use of railroads has been shrunk to miniscule amounts compared to historic levels because of all the trucking. The price of diesel fuel is going to skyrocket the price of everything you buy.
The sooner we get out of OPEC's pocket the better. |
This is a great point!
also, I have already started down this road. Last December I bought a car because I can't afford to keep putting gas in the truck. Now the truck is just used for local transport when I need to haul stuff. I live about 30 miles from work and there is a buss that heads down this way but it doesn't stop anywhere near where I work. If they had a commuter rail to a central buss stop I would consider that.
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megawill
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:20 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | And it's not just paying directly for oil at the consumer level. Virtually everything we use in this country is transported by truck. Use of railroads has been shrunk to miniscule amounts compared to historic levels because of all the trucking. The price of diesel fuel is going to skyrocket the price of everything you buy.
The sooner we get out of OPEC's pocket the better. |
I have a neighbor who works in the Sales side of a trucking firm...he told me that at current diesel prices, approx 2.15 a gallon, that it is costing carriers .23 cents a mile to haul goods...
and it isn't just trucking....thing about how much fuel is used on the farm, to get those goods in and out of the ground, before they ever hit the truck...
so I agree with your statement, that we need to 'get out of OPEC's pocket'...but I'll ask who do you think is more likely to lead us down that road, our current oil baron President or the Democratic alternative who has been pushing for this for years?... 
---
megwill
Last edited by megawill on 10/28/04 - 10:26; edited 1 time in total
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AlaninTX
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:20 Post subject:
There was a geophysicist for Shell oil named Dr. M. King Hubbard who developed a theory called "peak oil." In 1956 he theorized that oil production in the US would peak in the late 60s to early 70s. His theory proved to be true--the US has never discovered and produced as much oil as it did in 1970, and ever since then domestic oil production has slid sharply.
A gap has developed between global oil production and discovery . That is, global demand continues to grow rapidly, while discovery of proven reserves have continued to fairly rapidly decline. Global production of oil is currently expected to peak "with terminal decline setting in and becoming self-evident" by about 2010, according to Uppsala Hydrocarbon Depletion Study Group.
To get a good picture of the Saudi fields and outlook for future production, I would suggest you read this.
For more information about the peak oil theory, thisis a very good site.
The world is running out of oil much more quickly than we think. We have discovered about all the oil that is available on the planet, and many fields are near the point of exhaustion--that is they have been flooded and horizonally drilled to the point where they either no longer produce, or production is nearing the end.
The really frightening thing to me is this; I learned all about this and the peak oil theory from my cousin who is a very successful oil driller and producer in west Texas. In the oil business, the Hubbert peak oil theory is taken as a fact, as are current global depletion models. All I can tell you is my cousin and a number of his partners and fellow domestic oil drillers/producers say the global depletion models are right.
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