off-on topic for on-topic
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elkid
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 Posted: 10/27/04 - 12:43 Post subject: off-on topic for on-topic
To maintain civility and to stay on topic, can we all try to do our own research and factfinding? When I post in this forum I make sure my statements are as factual as possible, and have looked up a few things to ensure my memory is correct. In a serious topic forum, it should be understood that when you make a statement that you should be able to back it up with FACT. Not your personal opinion, not your particular beliefs, but quantifiable, verifiable fact. There have been some bonafide questions, but sometimes a little Google on your own does the trick.
Please? Too many locks this week for what could have been viable, interesting discussions.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 12:53 Post subject: Re: off-on topic for on-topic
| elkid wrote: | To maintain civility and to stay on topic, can we all try to do our own research and factfinding? When I post in this forum I make sure my statements are as factual as possible, and have looked up a few things to ensure my memory is correct. In a serious topic forum, it should be understood that when you make a statement that you should be able to back it up with FACT. Not your personal opinion, not your particular beliefs, but quantifiable, verifiable fact. There have been some bonafide questions, but sometimes a little Google on your own does the trick.
Please? Too many locks this week for what could have been viable, interesting discussions. |
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megawill
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 13:14 Post subject:
nothing wrong with opinion, as long it is stated as such...
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RexRacer
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 13:26 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: | | nothing wrong with opinion, as long it is stated as such... |
Agreed.
I don't mind some explanation, especially if its something I'm saying that people don't know a lot about, but I'd prefer to point someone to an organization or author rather than give them a detailed reference or citation. I would if I could, but I usually don't have the time to do so.
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genie
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 13:34 Post subject:
| RexRacer wrote: |
Agreed.
I don't mind some explanation, especially if its something I'm saying that people don't know a lot about, but I'd prefer to point someone to an organization or author rather than give them a detailed reference or citation. I would if I could, but I usually don't have the time to do so. |
Agreed with both. A lot of us don't have all day to be looking up references and quotes and such, so what's wrong with just saying "this is what I believe" or "JMHO"? That's one reason why I ask questions about things I am curious about, because I know someone here probably already knows something about it, even in general terms, and I've found people are generally willing to share what they know. The bottom line is, you still learn something, no?
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elkid
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 13:37 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | A lot of us don't have all day to be looking up references and quotes and such, so what's wrong with just saying "this is what I believe" or "JMHO"? |
I am one of those people who don't have all day to do that either (believe it or not). But there's a difference in having an opinion "just because" and having an opinion steeped in reality. As in "the sky is blue because I say so" versus "the sky is blue because [some scientific reason]". Surely if you feel strongly about your opinions, they should have some kind of basis, no?
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Pug
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 13:39 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
Surely if you feel strongly about your opinions, they should have some kind of basis, no? |
Yes, but I may have at one point been informed about the specific reasons and had sources at that point, but it has been several years since I formed my opinion and now do not have the resources at hand to fully document my position.
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genie
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 13:42 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
I am one of those people who don't have all day to do that either (believe it or not). But there's a difference in having an opinion "just because" and having an opinion steeped in reality. As in "the sky is blue because I say so" versus "the sky is blue because [some scientific reason]". Surely if you feel strongly about your opinions, they should have some kind of basis, no? |
Or maybe having an opinion based on a previous discussion with someone, or an article someone emailed you that you read and deleted.....things you can't readily put your hands on? Or something we talked about in class that another student brought up? There are lots of different sources out there for information, and yes, some of it is going to be based on this news article or that npr broadcast or whatever. But sometimes people question the viability of a source because it isn't one that they personally subscribe to, so then where are you? You might be a fan of NPR, I might like Fox News and you think they are idiots. So, I quote Fox News, and you say "that's not a viable source." (Just an example, I'm not saying you've actually done this) So, who's right? Again, it's opinion, no? **edited to add Pug kinda already said some of this while I was writing.
I'm sure we all have our favorite sources that one or the other side will call "liberal rhetoric" or "biased conservative twaddle"--but does one person's opinion for that source make it any less viable?
**edited a second time to add, when you're talking about medicine, I can agree that an article on whether beer is bad for you based on a study would be useful in making your point to that effect, but politically, there is a LOT out there that is rhetorical and both sides usually have a story, however only one of them can be right, hence the term spin, correct?
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jrjo
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 09:52 Post subject:
Be careful too on what you call 'fact'. Like we see in the THK thread, when it comes to tax dollars, the IRS site is going to be more accurate than the US Census site. And with squishier topics like politics, saying that CBS is more factual over NBC can't be quantified. Or if I quote rushlimbaugh.com does that make it fact? I dare say any site that gets quoted as fact is going to have someone here dispute it.
"Scientific research" can get cited until doomsday and much of it I'll be a huge skeptic on just based on many of my religious beliefs. Or my "personal experience" has shown that the major pundits have all got it wrong, such as the case with the Kerry campaign limiting any opposite party signs when they came to Northern Minnesota.
If there's one thing the worldwide web can't do is create a black and white world out of a topic. Just my two-cents, but if anything, the worldwide web creates a whole lot more grey out there.
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elkid
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:05 Post subject:
Man, you guys will argue anything. Like who's fact is more factual. Perhaps I was vague, but I meant things outside of ideology, statistics, belief systems and other subjective topics. But whatever.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:14 Post subject:
if it's in print, is it a fact?
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Pug
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:18 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | if it's in print, is it a fact? |
Pug is a suave, handsome man.
Yep, it's a fact.
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genie
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:29 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: |
Pug is a suave, handsome man.
Yep, it's a fact. |
Care to post the link to the survey that this fact comes from? 
So Lauri, then what did you mean? Just what you said there covers a wide range: ideology, stats, belief systems.....etc.....aren't they all contributors to what people post here, in addition to what they read/hear on the news/see in real life experience? JJ is right, the world itself isn't black and white, so I'm really not sure what your point was. Can you elaborate, maybe it will make more sense?  (I'm not being smart either, I just really don't get what you were getting at....)
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Pug
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:36 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
Care to post the link to the survey that this fact comes from?
So Lauri, then what did you mean? Just what you said there covers a wide range: ideology, stats, belief systems.....etc.....aren't they all contributors to what people post here, in addition to what they read/hear on the news/see in real life experience? JJ is right, the world itself isn't black and white, so I'm really not sure what your point was. Can you elaborate, maybe it will make more sense? (I'm not being smart either, I just really don't get what you were getting at....) |
I found ithere. It's in print, it's a fact. 
Many things are subjective, and those should either be obvious or explained as such when questioned. If there are sources that we have, we should use them or suggest where we found that information. That's a guide that i'd go by for documenting here.
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genie
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Posted: 10/28/04 - 10:38 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: |
I found ithere. It's in print, it's a fact. |
Well, since that's a source with a very high degree of reliability, I will therefore accept this as fact.
| Quote: | | Many things are subjective, and those should either be obvious or explained as such when questioned. If there are sources that we have, we should use them or suggest where we found that information. That's a guide that i'd go by for documenting here. |
That sounds reasonable to me.
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