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medical - how cool is THIS?


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elkid
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PostPosted: 12/05/03 - 10:13    Post subject: medical - how cool is THIS?
Virtual Autopsies Might Replace Scalpels (By ERIC FIDLER, Associated Press Writer)

CHICAGO - In the not-too-distant future, autopsies might be performed using computerized scanning rather than scalpels if research led by a Swiss forensic pathologist bears fruit. The "virtual autopsy" as envisioned and practiced by Dr. Michael Thali and colleagues at the University of Bern's Institute of Forensic Medicine is a minimally invasive procedure that relies on high technology rather than sharp implements.

It offers advantages in criminal cases since bodies are not cut up and juries view computer simulations rather than photos of cadavers, said Thali, who spoke Wednesday at the annual meeting of the Radiological Society of North America. "It does not destroy key forensic evidence," Thali said. "Also, when you present autopsy findings in a courtroom they can be very gruesome." Further, he said, it makes autopsies on decomposed bodies considerably easier.

Thali said technicians use advanced computed tomography — CT scans — to get an overview of the body, then follow that up with magnetic resonance imaging for details of organs, muscles and soft tissue. Three-dimensional surface scanning provides a picture of the outside of the body. All the images can then be merged on the computer, giving investigators a picture of the entire body that can be stored on a computer, e-mailed to others for a second opinion or even posted on a Web site, Thali said. The technique, he said, could be used when family members feel squeamish about a traditional autopsy or their religion forbids it.

Dr. Edmund Donoghue, the Cook County medical examiner, said pathologists already use imaging technology — generally X-rays — in some cases, but he was skeptical that virtual autopsy would replace the classic autopsy anytime soon. "This combines two very costly imaging technologies. It's probably outside the reach of most medical examiner's offices at the current time," he said. Also, he said, a full-body scan with MRI equipment takes up to three hours, and his office handles about 17 cases a day, meaning he would need several machines.

Thali said he believes both the time needed to complete a scan and the cost of the equipment will come down in the future.

Sholom Ackelsberg, general manager for global CT research and advanced applications at GE Medical Systems, said CT scanners and MRI equipment sell for between $300,000 and $2 million apiece. He predicted both falling prices and increased quality in coming years.

Thali said he and his colleagues have used the techniques for three years and 100 cases of crime victims. First they conducted a virtual autopsy, then a standard one. The results, he said, showed that the virtual autopsy is as accurate as traditional autopsies. Eventually, he predicted, the procedure will be accepted by courts and pathologists. "It's absolutely comparable to how DNA evidence was in the mid-1980s," he said. "In 10 or 15 years I think it will be just as accepted."
Maddies Wench
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PostPosted: 12/05/03 - 10:22    Post subject:
I imagine from a humanitarian standpoint, it would be much nicer to return the remains of a loved one to the family as intact as possible.

Nothing like a huge Y incision to make you ponder your mortality.
Running Brewer
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PostPosted: 12/05/03 - 10:24    Post subject:
Great but then you could hack in and change the results to prove so and so wasn't poisoned.
MastrBrewr
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PostPosted: 12/05/03 - 10:24    Post subject:
I'm sorry, but that's too many words and stuff. Can you summarize that for me? meh
HYPERASHEL
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PostPosted: 12/10/03 - 18:08    Post subject:
But how would it determine such deaths caused by suffocation, poisonings, asphyxiasion?

great, for gun shots too, HMMMM bullet flying out of the corpse when the MRI is turned on?

sounds good but certainly will not be able to be used on all cases. AND could run up the cost of autopsies.

besides how else will i get my fun? start hacking on real bodies? Wink
elkid
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PostPosted: 12/10/03 - 18:39    Post subject:
HYPERASHEL wrote:
But how would it determine such deaths caused by suffocation, poisonings, asphyxiasion?

Petechial hemorrhages will help.

I don't think this was meant to be an end all, be all, however.
HYPERASHEL
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PostPosted: 12/10/03 - 18:44    Post subject:
elkid wrote:
HYPERASHEL wrote:
But how would it determine such deaths caused by suffocation, poisonings, asphyxiasion?

Petechial hemorrhages will help.

I don't think this was meant to be an end all, be all, however.


Yes they'll show. but i was thinking a bit further into it, suffocation HOW? heavier than air gasses, loss of air? or the classic pillow to the face?

sorry my lab training kickin in.
elkid
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PostPosted: 12/10/03 - 18:45    Post subject:
HYPERASHEL wrote:
Yes they'll show. but i was thinking a bit further into it, suffocation HOW? heavier than air gasses, loss of air? or the classic pillow to the face?

sorry my lab training kickin in.

Just call in CSI!

Is this what you do, like Dr. Michael Baden? Fascinating work.
HYPERASHEL
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PostPosted: 12/10/03 - 19:03    Post subject:
elkid wrote:
HYPERASHEL wrote:
Yes they'll show. but i was thinking a bit further into it, suffocation HOW? heavier than air gasses, loss of air? or the classic pillow to the face?

sorry my lab training kickin in.

Just call in CSI!

Is this what you do, like Dr. Michael Baden? Fascinating work.


i've done it in the past, yes fun and fascinating. but tedious at times too, and not always convenient (sp?)

like, can't they die while i am on the clock??
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