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j1miller
Puppy Love!
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Joined: 07 Jul 2002
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Location: Lost on trail.
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 Posted: 01/09/06 - 22:10 Post subject:
Just saying interesting reading and I have an entire room dedicated to the giraffe....
I'm fascinated with them also.
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HYPERASHEL
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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Location: The South's Sauna, Atlanta
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 01:32 Post subject:
when referring to these mutations don't think of it as yearly time but in generations.
Lets look at the Galapagos Island tortises. all of these gus started off the same general body and hard top. each isalnd of the Galapagos isdland is a unique enviorment, the terrain, the vegetation, and foods. the tortises mutated over time to what was better suited traits, some have a shell (called a carapace) that allows the neck to reach higher, another island has a tortise with thicker mouth skin so it can eat cactus. all in all there are five or six varieties of the same tortise but each is unique to only that island's habitat.
the finches (Darwin's favorite) are another example. while these little birds can fly to the other isalnds they dont, why? because over the years the mutations have made them fairly specific to the isalnd thay in habit, thicker bills for some, longer bills for others. all depending on the specific changes that benefited the population. All that this is a natural method of selective breeding.
regarding humans, well we have mutated as well. first of all, we are classified as Homo sapien sapien we are the mutation that derived from Homo sapien one of the big differnces and most noticeable? we are bigger, we're taller, we have a slightly bigger cranium. so you see mutations are not all bad. mutation is nothing but a variance from the norm. sometimes for the bad, sometimes for the good.
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16218
Location: unknown zone
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 07:47 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: |
regarding humans, well we have mutated as well. first of all, we are classified as Homo sapien sapien we are the mutation that derived from Homo sapien one of the big differnces and most noticeable? we are bigger, we're taller, we have a slightly bigger cranium. so you see mutations are not all bad. mutation is nothing but a variance from the norm. sometimes for the bad, sometimes for the good. |
However, apparently some of us haven't quite kept up with the mutation curve. i was in Dick's sporting goods last night, looking for a shirt for a normal sized 17 yo and if he had arms as long as my legs, and a torso as thick as a redwood tree, we'd have had 1,000 shirts to choose from. an entire department there should be designated "MISSING LINK" 
no shirt for you-- you normal, structurally-adapted mutated teenager. sorry.
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msparks
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3182
Location: Jammin' at the Frim Fram, Frippin' in the Krotz
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 08:54 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | <snip> For example, look at cheryl's list of bacteria and how fast the mutations that benefit the species happen there. Why doesn't that happen to mammals? |
Should we expect the same rate of change? If so, why? And maybe that question should be posted in the Math Forum.
| Quote: | | Man has been loping alongside giraffes for thousands of years and they haven't changed. |
They, meaning man? Giraffes? But...man has changed.
| Quote: | Shouldn't the 'improvement curve' of mutations continue? Why the standstill in recent centuries while bacterias only continue to mutate even faster?  |
Standstill? It only seems like that, due to the length of lifespans. Plus, it's really hard to put humans under a microscope and observe them for the length of time necessary to notice mutational change over generations. 
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cdnhollywood
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Joined: 05 Oct 2004
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 09:14 Post subject:
I'm leaving this thread if anyone decides to bring in the influence of sexual dimorphism....
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andydp
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003
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Location: Upstate NY near Albany
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 09:24 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | It's a good example of why evolution is hard to believe. Mutations, as we know them, handicap and put an animal at a disadvantage. So saying a long-neck was an evolutionary advantage goes against the law of the jungle in eating the weakest/mutated/handicapped. |
Not too hard to understand. There are recorded cases in the 19th century where animal coloring changed to adapt to the environment. In England there was a type of monarch butterfly. When the industrial revolution spewed out all its coal smoke and dust, the air and buildings got darker. The butterfly slowly adapted to the darker environment by having larger amnounts of dark/black coloring on its wings.
Interestingly, a Giraffe's neck has the same amount of vertebrae that we have. Personally, if you look at the big picture, perhaps the animals main source of food was a short bush. Over the years, to survive the giraffes, it started getting taller, the giraffes' necks became taller to get to the leaves. Just one thought.
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HYPERASHEL
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Location: The South's Sauna, Atlanta
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 09:41 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | It's a good example of why evolution is hard to believe. Mutations, as we know them, handicap and put an animal at a disadvantage. So saying a long-neck was an evolutionary advantage goes against the law of the jungle in eating the weakest/mutated/handicapped. |
Not too hard to understand. There are recorded cases in the 19th century where animal coloring changed to adapt to the environment. In England there was a type of monarch butterfly. When the industrial revolution spewed out all its coal smoke and dust, the air and buildings got darker. The butterfly slowly adapted to the darker environment by having larger amnounts of dark/black coloring on its wings.
Interestingly, a Giraffe's neck has the same amount of vertebrae that we have. Personally, if you look at the big picture, perhaps the animals main source of food was a short bush. Over the years, to survive the giraffes, it started getting taller, the giraffes' necks became taller to get to the leaves. Just one thought. |
I had forgotten the Monarchs of London. as for the plants changing in Africa hat is exactly what happenned, it went from being a dense forrest/woods to the Savannah. Which is also considered the main reason early hominids started to walk upright.
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Joined: 14 May 2002
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 09:41 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | we are bigger, we're taller, we have a slightly bigger cranium. |
It's nice to know that I've mutated further along than the rest of you. 
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 10:21 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | | we are bigger, we're taller, we have a slightly bigger cranium. |
It's nice to know that I've mutated further along than the rest of you. |
oh shut up you mutant.
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blue
your favorite weapon
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Joined: 21 May 2002
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Location: armed and ambitious
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 13:08 Post subject:
...ok
i guess my question really is:
how does a turtle end up growing a shell? does it all go back to the buffet of animals, the ones with hard backs survived? eventually all turtules had the shells?
 it's all so fascinating to me.
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cdnhollywood
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 14:41 Post subject:
| blue wrote: | ...ok
i guess my question really is:
how does a turtle end up growing a shell? does it all go back to the buffet of animals, the ones with hard backs survived? eventually all turtules had the shells?
it's all so fascinating to me. |
Ever read "The Origin of Species?"
Let's just say there's good reason why it hasn't been made into a movie....
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blue
your favorite weapon
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Joined: 21 May 2002
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 14:44 Post subject:
i wanna know how trees know how to grow. i'm seriously - wtf mate.
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 14:55 Post subject:
| blue wrote: | | i wanna know how trees know how to grow. i'm seriously - wtf mate. |
Seriously. They don't move. They can't eat. How do they get so big?
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blue
your favorite weapon
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Joined: 21 May 2002
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Location: armed and ambitious
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Posted: 01/10/06 - 15:01 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | blue wrote: | | i wanna know how trees know how to grow. i'm seriously - wtf mate. |
Seriously. They don't move. They can't eat. How do they get so big? |
at what point did it occur to a tree to grow big grows and grow reeeeally high.
too bad the MFers didn't see the chain saw comin'. they mind've evolved to run every now and then.
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TimRuns
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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Location: Coquitlam, British Columbia
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Posted: 01/11/06 - 00:46 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | blue wrote: | | i wanna know how trees know how to grow. i'm seriously - wtf mate. |
Seriously. They don't move. They can't eat. How do they get so big? |
Too bad they don't move...unlike the Ents in LOTR...
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