environmental causes of obesity?
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RexRacer
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 Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:02 Post subject:
Genie,
Not seen much data, but I'd say yes. Florida took some terrible hits and that'll likely be reflected in higher food prices. Gas prices will also be an issue. When our food comes from around the world and nation, and not just the neighboring counties, transport costs get huge when oil prices get this high.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:06 Post subject:
| RexRacer wrote: | Genie,
Not seen much data, but I'd say yes. Florida took some terrible hits and that'll likely be reflected in higher food prices. Gas prices will also be an issue. When our food comes from around the world and nation, and not just the neighboring counties, transport costs get huge when oil prices get this high. |
In addition, produce is labor-intensive work that can't be totally transferred to machines from start to finish, like so many orange cheese-flavored crackers. So even in a year where there isn't a catastrophe, it will cost more.
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:30 Post subject:
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:32 Post subject:
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cherylpf
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:32 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
But something just occurred to me on the subject of produce/farming....a lot of that depends on the unpredictability of that year's weather. I'm sure this year's citrus prices are going to be higher because of all the hurricaines destroying crops in FL, no? Granted, some of that could be price gouging by the distributors, but I know people in the Midwest who make their living by farming and it really does depend from year to year. Ya still gotta eat, whether your farm was half-leveled by storms or your crops dried up or not, right? So doesn't that have some effect on prices? |
(trying to remember senior year of college) I think commodities trading helps this as well with futures. I think. Its the same way (I think) Southwest airlines has been the only profitable airline, forward fuel prices. I think. A certain price is locked in ahead of time.
But also what kid said about subsidies. PH said once his family gets paid good money to not plant their farm.
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genie
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:49 Post subject:
Those are interesting PC, I wish I had time to do more than skim them right now. Here's one thing I noticed when I was cruising through:
While this may be true of East Austin, most other studies found that low-income shoppers have adapted to the marketplace. For example, a study of Philadelphia residents found that because they shop at competitive stores, going outside their residence area if necessary, the poor do not pay more for food (Goodman 1967). Further, despite the large number of small stores within the area, all but a small fraction of the residents go outside their immediate vicinity for their principal food shopping. Local convenience stores were used almost entirely as supplementary sources of emergency items.
Now it doesn't say where in Phila, I guess we'd have to pull the original article for that but.....
This one does support what you and elkid said about choosing economical foods though (which doesn't necessarily mean healthy):
In addition, a study conducted by the Economic Research Service for the U.S. Department of Agriculture found that low-income households spends less for food, on average, when compared to other households because low-income households select more economical foods, larger package sizes, and lower quality items, in order to spend less on food (Kaufman, MacDonald, Lutz, Smallwood 1997, 16).
But I found this was pretty interesting too...
Finally, a study conducted by the National Food Stamp Program found that: (1) 90% of low-income households rely primarily on supermarkets as their main type of food store; (2) many choose not to shop at the store closest to where they live; and, (3) households choose not to shop in their neighborhood because of high prices (47%) and a lack of stores (51%) (Office of Analysis, Nutrition, and Evaluation, 2003).
I am still looking for the research on why there is such a lack of stores in some urban areas. I'd bet that rob is correct about part of it being due to the crime rates, which are a liability to businesses.
This is only one study which I believe was done outside of Pittsburgh but somewhere in Allegheny county (it's on page 3 of the Heinz article)
The findings discussed above reflect the trends seen in the literature. Consumers in low-income neighborhoods and municipalities, who often lack large grocery stores, do not rely on convenience stores but travel outside of their neighborhoods to do the majority of their shopping. Interestingly, while there has been much debate at the local policy level over discrepancies in access to supermarkets, those interviewed did not express this as a large concern or experience food insecurity because of difficulties in reaching a supermarket.
Last edited by genie on 10/21/04 - 16:51; edited 1 time in total
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genie
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:50 Post subject:
I do like their suggestions for next steps though (also from the Heinz article)
Three steps for further research germinate from this project. Primarily, more work is needed to determine whether there are grocery store quality and price differentials. This requires a carefully-crafted market basket analysis in order to be successful. Secondly, purchasing-power profiles must be developed. There is much anecdotal information about what neighborhoods and municipalities can support with their incomes and federal assistance. However, until these profiles are developed we are left with one economic developer's word over another as to which geographic areas can support a new supermarket. Finally, one natural next step from this project is to rank neighborhoods and municipalities based on need. Then, steps should be taken to work with these communities to develop locally-driven, locally-tailored solutions. Not every community needs a Super Wal-Mart. Some need improved transportation, while other communities might combine convenience stores with farmers markets for a more balanced option, and others may be opportune places to support family markets.
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elkid
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:54 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | a study of Philadelphia residents found that because they shop at competitive stores, going outside their residence area if necessary, the poor do not pay more for food (Goodman 1967). |
1967, yo. 1967.
| Quote: | But I found this was pretty interesting too...
Finally, a study conducted by the National Food Stamp Program found that: (1) 90% of low-income households rely primarily on supermarkets as their main type of food store; (2) many choose not to shop at the store closest to where they live; and, (3) households choose not to shop in their neighborhood because of high prices (47%) and a lack of stores (51%) (Office of Analysis, Nutrition, and Evaluation, 2003). |
This makes sense. The only city I've been to where demographics truly prohibit access to decent food (except fruit) is NYC. There are almost no grocery stores in Manhattan. Philly, you can bus it. People frequently do.
| Quote: | | I am still looking for the research on why there is such a lack of stores in some urban areas. I'd bet that rob is correct about part of it being due to the crime rates, which are a liability to businesses. |
That and lack of viable space.
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:55 Post subject:
Yeah, I thought the articles were interesting as well. I find that it really depends on what urban area you are talking about. Having lived in both Detroit and Philadelphia, I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Philadelphia has a lot more middle to high income people living in the city as opposed to Detroit. When it comes to grocery stores in Detroit it was common for me to get a lot of things from stores where you purchased them through a bullet proof window!
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genie
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 16:59 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | Yeah, I thought the articles were interesting as well. I find that it really depends on what urban area you are talking about. Having lived in both Detroit and Philadelphia, I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Philadelphia has a lot more middle to high income people living in the city as opposed to Detroit. When it comes to grocery stores in Detroit it was common for me to get a lot of things from stores where you purchased them through a bullet proof window! |
Which would explain the lack of willingness for merchants to put stores in areas like that, no? 
I'm trying to remember what Chicago was like, at least the park near Grant Park where we were staying....I remember at least one 24 hour grocery type store but I can't recall the name. It looked pretty big though, not like your 'burban corner minimart. I know all down Wabash there are nothing but chain stores, Subway et al, and stuff but I didn't see a whole lot when we drove through Cicero on the way from the airport (a somewhat....errrr....lower income area).
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 17:01 Post subject:
The difference with Chicago and Detroit is the same as Philly and Detroit...with Detroit there is no real downtown area where people congregate and shop/hang out (such as Michigan Ave. or Center City). The whole area is depressed and it just gets worse as you go out of the downtown area. It really is sad. I agree with you that often times companies don't want to put stores in these areas because of issues related to crime.
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genie
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 17:05 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | The difference with Chicago and Detroit is the same as Philly and Detroit...with Detroit there is no real downtown area where people congregate and shop/hang out (such as Michigan Ave. or Center City). The whole area is depressed and it just gets worse as you go out of the downtown area. It really is sad. I agree with you that often times companies don't want to put stores in these areas because of issues related to crime. |
That's true and I was thinking about elkid's reference to NYC and trying to remember if I had ever seen a "real" grocery store there. I don't think I have either. It would be a massive undertaking to compare different cities across the country but you're right, that's really what needs to be done here, or at least smaller more localized studies in those areas, like Detroit, and then clearinghouse the data into one big meta-analysis.
There's a lot of good research to be done just from this study! Scuse me while I wipe the drool from my geeky research designer's chin.... 
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 17:12 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
That's true and I was thinking about elkid's reference to NYC and trying to remember if I had ever seen a "real" grocery store there. I don't think I have either. It would be a massive undertaking to compare different cities across the country but you're right, that's really what needs to be done here, or at least smaller more localized studies in those areas, like Detroit, and then clearinghouse the data into one big meta-analysis.
There's a lot of good research to be done just from this study! Scuse me while I wipe the drool from my geeky research designer's chin.... |
GEEK!
signed - dorky analyst geek 
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 19:06 Post subject:
First I have to admit to not reading this entire thread. I got too irritated reading the first two pages. Secondly, I am overweight...obese according to my doctor. I run at least 4x/week and do Tae Kwon Do at least 2x/week. On top of that I do a lot of walking as well and in the summer I swim. I regularly take the stairs instead of the elevator and I park a distance away from the stores instead of up close to the front. I dare ANYONE to call me lazy!
I live in the burbs and I pretty much buy healthy food to eat. Yes, the cost of eating healthy is a little more expensive, imho, than eating junk all the time. I rarely go down the chip, cookie, or candy isles while shopping. My main eating problem is with too much carb intake and too little protein intake (which I am trying to resolve).
I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT believe obesity is a "lack of education" problem. I watched "The Big Loser" the other night and I believe one of the people on there made a very good statement...he said something like "Fat people know exactly how to lose weight." I am no exception. Almost every single time I get in a discussion with a skinny person about me losing weight I can tell them just about everything they want to know about how to lose weight.
So, what is the problem? I think people have a huge lack of self control. I believe we use food in wrong ways. We use food for celebration (here little boy, you have done a good job...here is a piece of candy), We use food for entertainment (Let's do lunch), etc. Our lives revolve around food. People with little to no self control find living like that very difficult and will overeat. Some people will get to the point where they overeat so much they become more and more hungry, they loose more self control, and then become obese. This, I believe, is why we can have lots of skinny girls in their 20's who become obese in their 30's (not to mention child birth).
I don't know the solution but I sure hope I, personally, can overcome my issues with self control.
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elkid
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 08:56 Post subject:
When I was big, my problem was self control, too. Portions in the US are ridiculously large compared to other nations (big surprise there - everything here has to be bigger! better! faster!) and the simple notion of "eat what you need to fuel, burn off the rest" is pretty much lost on Americans. I, too, always knew how to lose weight. I just never really wanted to. I haven't "dieted" since I graduated college; I've been fortunate. Despite all the pounds and sizes I've lost in the last 2 1/2 years, I've still been able to eat whatever I want because of my high activity level. I just found over time that my stomach tolerance became less, so I can't eat cheese fries, mozzarella sticks, and Chinese food as often as I once could without getting ill.
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