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runaroundsue
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 Posted: 12/24/05 - 10:18 Post subject: another goodie from the Madison school district
MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Officials called off a planned a third-grade field trip to raise money for the Salvation Army after a parent objected to having students from Chavez Elementary School help the charitable organization.
The school district received a phone call from a parent who was "concerned about promoting religious organizations through the Salvation kettle point collection," district spokesman Ken Syke said.
School officials said the trip, during which the students were to serve as bellringers at the Salvation Army's red kettle collection points, was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state.
Chavez principal Howard Fried said there were other ways a charitable spirit could be instilled in students.
"My feeling is that we can certainly accomplish the same goals by having a service project within an organization that doesn't have a religious affiliation, and I'm hoping that sometime in the future they'll come up with an alternative," he said.
Sue Abplanalp, the district's assistant superintendent, said Chavez staff had selected the organization due to its charity work with the poor and homeless rather than for its Christian basis.
Donald Haar, who answers the Salvation Army's bellringer hot line in Madison, said his staff has previously had atheists and agnostics collect money for the poor and he disagreed with the district's decision.
"What really bothers me is what canceling the field trip does to the kids," he said. "It says that having a religion is a bad thing, that believing is a bad thing, and that is not the message our country should be sending right now. It should instead be encouraging our kids to volunteer."
Students from the school participated in a similar field trip with the Salvation Army last year and Amy Carran, one of the teachers who organized the field trip last year, said parents had been allowed to opt their child out of both the 2004 and 2005 trips.
"My kids were very disappointed," Carran said. "A lot of them said, 'It's not fair; it's not fair. Why can't that parent just keep their child home that day? It's not fair that the rest of us can't go.'"
A follow-up, a woman donated $10,000 upon hearing the story.
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Posted: 12/24/05 - 11:03 Post subject:
Couldn't the parent have just opted her own kid out? Win-win situation for everyone.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/24/05 - 11:20 Post subject:
so if they collect money for save the whales could I object on grounds that I disagree. I am sure my kids would just be able to opt out. Why punish the whole school.
Schools want to instill service and community yet are slammed at every opportunity.
This separation crap has gone to far.
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Ms. Jenn
Fresh, Hot & Wild
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Posted: 12/24/05 - 11:21 Post subject:
just goes to show how things in life have gotten out of hand
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 12/24/05 - 11:40 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | Couldn't the parent have just opted her own kid out? Win-win situation for everyone. |
Why punish the Salvation Army by taking away their donations? 
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sonnylax
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Posted: 12/24/05 - 12:04 Post subject:
Some of your are looking at this from a "good/evil" situation. The argument goes far deeper, IMHO.
| Quote: | School officials said the trip, during which the students were to serve as bellringers at the Salvation Army's red kettle collection points, was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state.
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I guess if you make this statement enough times, it's bound to be true.
| Quote: | Amendment 1 from the Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. |
I don't see how anyone could construe a Holiday school trip with the Salvation Army as the Federal Govt. establishing a religion. But that's government education at work for ya!
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 12/25/05 - 11:18 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | Couldn't the parent have just opted her own kid out? Win-win situation for everyone. |
My thoughts exactly.
However, on the other hand, conservatives have only themselves and the religious right to blame for nonsense such as this. They have so managed to alienate people between your conservative talk shows blaming liberals and anyone who disagrees with them that religious organizations regardless of the good they do for humanism as well as Christianity are being ostracized.
I see nothing wrong with public schools and governments having Christian decorations for Christmas as we are a predominantly Christian country. But I think all the activism on the part of certain conservative groups to mix religion and politics has unfortunately had a chilling effect on such shows.
So, people are kind of reaping what you have sown, don't you think?
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 12/25/05 - 13:25 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | conservatives have only themselves and the religious right to blame for nonsense such as this. They have so managed to alienate people between your conservative talk shows blaming liberals and anyone who disagrees with them that religious organizations regardless of the good they do for humanism as well as Christianity are being ostracized.
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Big. Fat. 1.
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copteacher
Adjunct
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Posted: 12/26/05 - 07:50 Post subject:
It was never an issue until liberals and the ACLU brought it up. Most and I mean most people did not care about it. Conservatives are fighting back and all of the sudden they are wrong. They should have fought back harder years ago.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 12/26/05 - 11:02 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | Couldn't the parent have just opted her own kid out? Win-win situation for everyone. |
The article sez they could have. The parent evidently went beyond wanting her child out, they pushed the separation of church and state issue to get the whole thing called off. 
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | | So, people are kind of reaping what you have sown, don't you think? |
Did you read the same article I did?
An un-religious person is to blame for keeping money out of the red kettle. The intolerant left has hurt the poor in this situation. If that's what the left wants to reap and sow, then I sure hope voters remember that at the polls. 
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Posted: 12/26/05 - 12:04 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | | purple hayes wrote: | | Couldn't the parent have just opted her own kid out? Win-win situation for everyone. |
My thoughts exactly.
However, on the other hand, conservatives have only themselves and the religious right to blame for nonsense such as this. They have so managed to alienate people between your conservative talk shows blaming liberals and anyone who disagrees with them that religious organizations regardless of the good they do for humanism as well as Christianity are being ostracized.
I see nothing wrong with public schools and governments having Christian decorations for Christmas as we are a predominantly Christian country. But I think all the activism on the part of certain conservative groups to mix religion and politics has unfortunately had a chilling effect on such shows.
So, people are kind of reaping what you have sown, don't you think? |
GRR you're so far out in left field there isn't anyone gonna hit a homerun over your head. RTPD hit the nail on the head. The antics of the ACLU and the far left are what started this ball of crap rolling.
Any conservative activism is the direct result of the left an
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/26/05 - 12:15 Post subject:
So a field trip to assist with a Muslim youth charity would be okay with all of you?
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 12/26/05 - 13:04 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | So a field trip to assist with a Muslim youth charity would be okay with all of you? |
Yep.
Would a field trip to assist the Jehovah Witness youth coat drive be okay with you?
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 12/26/05 - 22:20 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | So a field trip to assist with a Muslim youth charity would be okay with all of you? |
depends whom/what it benefits. I've worked in a church kitchen preparing and serving meals which I'm not a member of the church or the belief. So I'd say it'd be okay with me, assuming the charity is for the benefit of all, such as the Salvation Army.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/27/05 - 07:14 Post subject:
I would be okay with a trip to a Muslim youth Charity too, as long as it has an educational basis.
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