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elkid
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 Posted: 12/14/04 - 14:34 Post subject: "intelligent design"
ACLU to Sue Over Pa. Evolution Debate (By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer)
HARRISBURG, Pa. - The state American Civil Liberties Union plans to file a federal lawsuit Tuesday against a Pennsylvania school district that is requiring students to learn about alternatives to the theory of evolution. The ACLU said its lawsuit will be the first to challenge whether public schools should teach "intelligent design," which holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by some higher power. The Dover Area School District was believed to be the first in the nation to mandate intelligent design when it voted 6-3 in October in favor of including the concept in the science curriculum.
The ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State have scheduled a news conference Tuesday to discuss the suit, which will be filed in U.S. District Court in Harrisburg, ACLU spokesman Paul Silva said Monday. Neither Silva nor Joe Conn, a spokesman for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, would comment on the specifics of the complaint. School superintendent Richard Nilsen had no comment Monday. Administrators have declined to comment on the mandate, which applies to ninth-grade biology classes at Dover High School, in rural south-central Pennsylvania.
School board member William Buckingham spearheaded the change as the leader of the board's curriculum committee. He has said that he proposed the change as a way of balancing evolution with competing theories that raised questions about its scientific validity. At least one other district has recently become embroiled in federal litigation over teaching evolution. A federal judge in Georgia is considering the constitutionality of a suburban Atlanta district's decision to include a warning sticker about evolution in biology textbooks.
Last month, the Dover district issued a statement saying that state academic standards require the teaching of evolution, which holds that Earth is billions of years old and that life forms developed over millions of years. But the statement also said Charles Darwin's theory "is still being tested as new evidence is discovered," and that intelligent design "is an explanation of the origins of life that differs from Darwin's view." Additionally, district officials said they would monitor the lessons "to make sure no one is promoting but also not inhibiting religion."
The ACLU has said intelligent design is a more secular form of creationism, a Biblical-based view that credits the origin of species to God, and may violate the constitutional separation of church and state.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:17 Post subject:
I wouldn’t have a problem with my learning “this is what some people believe”, but I wouldn’t want it taught as a scientific principle unless there is actually some scientific evidence to back it up.
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RexRacer
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:23 Post subject:
Countdown to Lockdown on this thread. . . . . . . . . .
Sure, evolution is a theory. Most things in the realm of science are, mainly because scientists are trained to think in terms of observability, replicability, and the like. They always hold out that some new explanation may come about that renders the old understanding obsolete. Like relativity or dinosaurs with feathers.
ID seems to me to be nothing more than a rehashing of Newtonian philosophy of the Prime Mover. It's relevance in schools at all seems more symptomatic of a theist agenda on the part of peoeple who were motivated to gain election to school boards and push for this curriculum in our science classes.
I firmly believe we should teach religion and science in the schools--but not in the same breath. It wasn't until I went away to college that I learned that every religion has a different creation story, a cosmogonic myth. I was a smart kid, went to good schools, and believe me, the topic simply didn't come up.
Western Christianity since its inception has had a terribly difficult time separating mythos from logos. They are both powerful and both rich areas of study and contemplation. Sadly, we've played them against one another for almost two thousand years, unlike Judaism, Islam, and Orthodox Christianity, which can all better accept that revelations of science do not compete with, or diminish, revelations of the divine.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:33 Post subject:
Genesis Chapter 1.
God said it. I believe it.
now that you know I feel....
as a teacher though, I think ALL theories should be taught period. Say they are theories. There is as much evidence disproving everything.
it does students a disservice by eliminating theories. It is bad education theory.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:42 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | Genesis Chapter 1.
God said it. I believe it.
now that you know I feel....
as a teacher though, I think ALL theories should be taught period. Say they are theories. There is as much evidence disproving everything.
it does students a disservice by eliminating theories. It is bad education theory. |
A theory has at least some credible scientific to back up the idea, which is different from a belief – something that is taken on faith. Beliefs should not be taught in school as scientific theory.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:50 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: |
A theory has at least some credible scientific to back up the idea, which is different from a belief – something that is taken on faith. Beliefs should not be taught in school as scientific theory. |
there is a lot of science behind creationism. There is a lot of faith in my opinion for people who believe in evolution. Believing theories in itself is faith.
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jrjo
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:53 Post subject:
I think it takes more faith to believe in evolution than creation.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 15:55 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | I think it takes more faith to believe in evolution than creation. |
Why? What evidence is there for creationism?
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Wicked Flea
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:25 Post subject:
| RexRacer wrote: | Countdown to Lockdown on this thread. . . . . . . . . .
Sure, evolution is a theory. Most things in the realm of science are, mainly because scientists are trained to think in terms of observability, replicability, and the like. They always hold out that some new explanation may come about that renders the old understanding obsolete. Like relativity or dinosaurs with feathers.
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| rtpd113 wrote: |
there is a lot of science behind creationism. There is a lot of faith in my opinion for people who believe in evolution. Believing theories in itself is faith. |
There is also a lot of science behind science.
Evolution that is.
Faith IMHO is not science.
I don't mind them teaching both but give weight where weight is due. On the science side, there is more evidence for it.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:33 Post subject:
some of the "science" though is questionable i.e. carbon dating and potassium argon dating.
I settle this in my mind by saying God said it in the Bible, I believe that I am not arguing evolution any more. I have done research and believe in Creation. If I were to teach science, I would teach both creation and evolution period, not espousing either but allowing students to make up their own minds. Learning is about exploration, teachers are to present the data.
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RexRacer
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:39 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | If I were to teach science, I would teach both creation and evolution period, not espousing either but allowing students to make up their own minds. Learning is about exploration, teachers are to present the data. |
So I assume you would teach Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, Jainist, and myriad native culture creationism in this science class as well, explaining to the students that none of them necessarily have any better or worse explanatory power for how we got here than the Judeo-Christian version? That would get to be a pretty full biology curriculum, don't you think?
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elkid
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:42 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | some of the "science" though is questionable i.e. carbon dating and potassium argon dating. |
Surely carbon dating is more scientifically reliable than being created from a rib?
What CB said.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:45 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
Surely carbon dating is more scientifically reliable than being created from a rib?
What CB said. |
can't prove it wrong as much as I cant prove it right
tell me if evolution is so cool, how do males and females develop over time with the same mutations. Just seems like a stretch.
You can carbon date some objects twice and different dates would come up.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:47 Post subject:
| RexRacer wrote: |
So I assume you would teach Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, Jainist, and myriad native culture creationism in this science class as well, explaining to the students that none of them necessarily have any better or worse explanatory power for how we got here than the Judeo-Christian version? That would get to be a pretty full biology curriculum, don't you think? |
sure would. If that is what is in the curriculum. The two major theories are creationism and evolution, therefore that would be taught.
if someone wanted to do extra research on others and presented I would allow it.
there are lots of theories for lots of subjects, not just this one. You present the major theories in all subjects and allow that no one is correct or wrong, just some are more accepted. I think that is a great service if a teacher presents to a student to explore and learn.
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elkid
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Posted: 12/14/04 - 16:48 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | tell me if evolution is so cool, how do males and females develop over time with the same mutations. Just seems like a stretch. |
Mutations such as what?
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