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gretriever
Hipster Doofus
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Location: A moving target in a firing range.
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 Posted: 10/03/06 - 15:15 Post subject:
How young can a page be?
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andydp
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Location: Upstate NY near Albany
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Posted: 10/03/06 - 15:33 Post subject:
| gretriever wrote: | | How young can a page be? |
They're High School age kids. Definetly under 18.
I guess the term "hoist by his own petard" is very appropriate here.
There is a big argument going on right now about when and what was known by the powers that be. So far the messages just seem "inappropriate". There has been no evidence of anything other than that. The repercussions may affect a Buffalo NY Congressman, who is the chairman of the page committee. Looks like a big shakeup is in the wings.
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camelia bedelia
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Location: God's Country
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Posted: 10/03/06 - 18:46 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | In some states, an infant is 14 year of age or younger. In some it's 16. For the feds, which this would be, it's 18. They're not young men. THey're kids, in need of the very protection Foley tried to legislate. |
That was my first response too, but I think keltic has a point. I agree they are kids and need protection, what he did was wrong regardless of gender. But it seems like gender does play into how people react to this. If he had been IM'ing with a 16 year old girl, I think the undertone of the debate would be different, a little more "what a naughty old man (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more)" and a lttle less "he's a sick monster". I'm not saying that's how it should be, but it feels like it is how it would be.
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 10/03/06 - 21:43 Post subject:
He's now claiming he was molested by a Priest when he was 13. I guess he thinks somehow that makes his actions less his fault.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 10/03/06 - 22:40 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | | He's now claiming he was molested by a Priest when he was 13. I guess he thinks somehow that makes his actions less his fault. |
not to mention that it plays along with the far Christian right, who often believe that some traumatic event in childhood or adolescence triggers homosexuality. please, there are plenty of homosexuals who have good relationships with their parents, who do not have distant fathers, nor do they have domineering mothers, they haven't been molested, and they didn't suddenly decide to be gay. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't being scripted by political leaders in the party. (again, I would expect the same from Dems, so let's not make this particular point a political issue)
I am willing to go along with the accusation of predator, but hot pedophile. I think the working definition of pedophile would exclude teenagers, but as mentioned in other posts, it varies by state. If we try to say that pedophilia is having sex with someone under the age of 18, then there are a lot of 19yo's who are technically pedophiles. It appears that Foley was a closeted gay man, though not very secretly closeted, who likes 'em young. I question whether he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man. Living a secret life sends one to dark places.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Location: Between here and eternity...
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Posted: 10/04/06 - 09:05 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | GaRebelRunner wrote: | | He's now claiming he was molested by a Priest when he was 13. I guess he thinks somehow that makes his actions less his fault. |
not to mention that it plays along with the far Christian right, who often believe that some traumatic event in childhood or adolescence triggers homosexuality. please, there are plenty of homosexuals who have good relationships with their parents, who do not have distant fathers, nor do they have domineering mothers, they haven't been molested, and they didn't suddenly decide to be gay. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't being scripted by political leaders in the party. (again, I would expect the same from Dems, so let's not make this particular point a political issue)
I am willing to go along with the accusation of predator, but hot pedophile. I think the working definition of pedophile would exclude teenagers, but as mentioned in other posts, it varies by state. If we try to say that pedophilia is having sex with someone under the age of 18, then there are a lot of 19yo's who are technically pedophiles. It appears that Foley was a closeted gay man, though not very secretly closeted, who likes 'em young. I question whether he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man. Living a secret life sends one to dark places. |
Doesn't position of authority play into it, too though? Not the label "pedophile", but their age combined with his position of power over them?
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 10/04/06 - 09:06 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | GaRebelRunner wrote: | | He's now claiming he was molested by a Priest when he was 13. I guess he thinks somehow that makes his actions less his fault. |
not to mention that it plays along with the far Christian right, who often believe that some traumatic event in childhood or adolescence triggers homosexuality. please, there are plenty of homosexuals who have good relationships with their parents, who do not have distant fathers, nor do they have domineering mothers, they haven't been molested, and they didn't suddenly decide to be gay. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't being scripted by political leaders in the party. (again, I would expect the same from Dems, so let's not make this particular point a political issue)
I am willing to go along with the accusation of predator, but hot pedophile. I think the working definition of pedophile would exclude teenagers, but as mentioned in other posts, it varies by state. If we try to say that pedophilia is having sex with someone under the age of 18, then there are a lot of 19yo's who are technically pedophiles. It appears that Foley was a closeted gay man, though not very secretly closeted, who likes 'em young. I question whether he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man. Living a secret life sends one to dark places. |
Doesn't position of authority play into it, too though? Not the label "pedophile", but their age combined with his position of power over them definitely makes him a predator like you said.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 10/04/06 - 10:16 Post subject:
| airehead wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: | | GaRebelRunner wrote: | | He's now claiming he was molested by a Priest when he was 13. I guess he thinks somehow that makes his actions less his fault. |
not to mention that it plays along with the far Christian right, who often believe that some traumatic event in childhood or adolescence triggers homosexuality. please, there are plenty of homosexuals who have good relationships with their parents, who do not have distant fathers, nor do they have domineering mothers, they haven't been molested, and they didn't suddenly decide to be gay. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't being scripted by political leaders in the party. (again, I would expect the same from Dems, so let's not make this particular point a political issue)
I am willing to go along with the accusation of predator, but hot pedophile. I think the working definition of pedophile would exclude teenagers, but as mentioned in other posts, it varies by state. If we try to say that pedophilia is having sex with someone under the age of 18, then there are a lot of 19yo's who are technically pedophiles. It appears that Foley was a closeted gay man, though not very secretly closeted, who likes 'em young. I question whether he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man. Living a secret life sends one to dark places. |
Doesn't position of authority play into it, too though? Not the label "pedophile", but their age combined with his position of power over them definitely makes him a predator like you said. |
absolutely! the balance of power in the "relationship" is skewed in favor of the predator! There is also the idea that parents have put their trust in the program and they expect their children to be safe while participating in the page program. It's very much like sending your kid to school; you trust that the teachers are not there to molest your children. Even if the "adult" begins a relationship with a student (underage, not necessarily a child) the student has a lot to lose by rejecting the advances of the adult who has authority over them.
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Posted: 10/04/06 - 11:36 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | GaRebelRunner wrote: | | He's now claiming he was molested by a Priest when he was 13. I guess he thinks somehow that makes his actions less his fault. |
not to mention that it plays along with the far Christian right, who often believe that some traumatic event in childhood or adolescence triggers homosexuality. please, there are plenty of homosexuals who have good relationships with their parents, who do not have distant fathers, nor do they have domineering mothers, they haven't been molested, and they didn't suddenly decide to be gay. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't being scripted by political leaders in the party. (again, I would expect the same from Dems, so let's not make this particular point a political issue)
I am willing to go along with the accusation of predator, but hot pedophile. I think the working definition of pedophile would exclude teenagers, but as mentioned in other posts, it varies by state. If we try to say that pedophilia is having sex with someone under the age of 18, then there are a lot of 19yo's who are technically pedophiles. It appears that Foley was a closeted gay man, though not very secretly closeted, who likes 'em young. I question whether he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man. Living a secret life sends one to dark places. |
IMO he's a pedophile who was living on the edge. My guess is that if he'd of gotten a favorable response from one of the youths he would've acted on it. He's a 50 something yr old man and he's targeting boys under the age of 18 - those are pedophile numbers in my book.
As far as questioning whether or not he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man - I don't that has anything to do with it. He could have more easily lived his not so secret life seeking males of legal age. I'm calling it like I see it, gay or straight has nothing to do with this one. He's a pedophile or very close to crossing the line into it.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 10/04/06 - 12:31 Post subject:
| robp wrote: |
IMO he's a pedophile who was living on the edge. My guess is that if he'd of gotten a favorable response from one of the youths he would've acted on it. He's a 50 something yr old man and he's targeting boys under the age of 18 - those are pedophile numbers in my book.
As far as questioning whether or not he would have pursued the young ones if he could live an open and honest life as a gay man - I don't that has anything to do with it. He could have more easily lived his not so secret life seeking males of legal age. I'm calling it like I see it, gay or straight has nothing to do with this one. He's a pedophile or very close to crossing the line into it. |
let me say this carefully because I'm not arguing in his defense; He was hiding his orientation, and people who do that tend to do things they shouldn't. I hold our culture responsible for some of that, BUT, it's not that difficult to be an out gay man. Hell, Jim McGreevey is getting rich from it. I agree that if Foley had the opportunity, he would have acted on it with one of those kids. I still say he's a predator, not a pedophile. I also agree with you that in this case, gay or straight doesn't matter.
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andydp
Member
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Posted: 10/04/06 - 16:29 Post subject:
In one of the blogs I was just at, the age of consent in DC is 16. Technically, Foley is not doing anything illegal. Yet, its still not right.
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