Why can't I get in to the last page of the gay marriage?
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Gogirlgo
Member
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
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 Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
If you want to put up some basic standards that you hope people will adhere to, that's great. So long as you understand that dealing with people is a messy job and not everyone will construe things as you intended. There is no answer that will make everyone happy. It's your forum, you can do what you want. If I find it truly horrific, I don't have to stay. I didn't pay for the service, we have no contract, you owe me nothing.
But when you start censoring you make decisions about what's offensive for everyone and that also is a sticky mess. We're a broad crew. That's one reason I think it's better not to censor.
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | Nor does someone need to leave because of a few bad dictatorial apples. |
Is that a slam against the moderators? 
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 16194
Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:22 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | Thanks, Genie, I appreciate the hit. It's funny how you act as though there's never been anything anti-Semitic on this board before. Say whatever you want about my tribe, because even the biggest, most vile Jew-hater has a right to her view. Her uncensored view. |
It wasn't a hit, and you know perfectly well I don't condone anyone saying anything anti-Semetic because I have a lot of Jewish friends. I used that to make my point because that's something that would be very relevant AND very hurtful to you personally, I am assuming, since you are Jewish. But that last line is where I differ--I don't see ANYTHING constructive about calling a Jewish person (insert appropriately anti-Semetic term here, cuz I don't know any) nor do I see calling gay people "fags", black people "niggers" or anything else that falls into the category of derogatory and hurtful of having ANY use whatsoever to a discussion or a debate. You tell me how, if you and someone else were having a discussion on your tribe's views vs. theirs, how hurling vileness at you rather than fact-based argument, would be a good thing. I don't see it AT ALL.
And really, tell me WHAT was SOOOOOO "not nice" about what I wrote? You DO like to stir the group up, you make that perfectly clear every time you post, and attack people for being "neo-cons" and make snide comments about everyone here, granted, they're way more veiled and normally not outwardly ugly like what was deleted here, but where in what I wrote was there not truth? If you dislike us all here so much, then why do you come here? I honestly don't understand that. 
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Joined: 14 May 2002
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Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:26 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | Nor does someone need to leave because of a few bad dictatorial apples. |
Is that a slam against the moderators? |
Again, you're twisting, twisting, twisssssting. I never said "go away, elkid, and take your liberal views that I disagree with along with you" now did I? I merely asked the question why would anyone want to stay somewhere that they didn't like the people, didn't like the way things were run, didn't like the way they felt "their side" was treated.......this is a voluntary participation site. We are all here because we choose to be here. I;m sure I'm projecting, because if I was that unhappy in a place I had the choice of leaving, and I really felt victimized, or otherwise sh*t on, I would leave. I guess I just don't understand why other people don't feel that way. I don't know how to spell that out any clearer. Did anyone ELSE out there understand what I said?
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16451
Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:29 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | Nor does someone need to leave because of a few bad dictatorial apples. |
Is that a slam against the moderators? |
Just find me the "bad dictatorial apple" online quiz and I'll take it!!!
I guarantee ya I've got plenty of lime and kiwi mixed in 
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Joined: 14 May 2002
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Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:31 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | But when you start censoring you make decisions about what's offensive for everyone and that also is a sticky mess. We're a broad crew. That's one reason I think it's better not to censor. |
Then it again goes back to the accountability of the rest of the community. I know the moderators normally base a decision to delete on a behind the scenes reaction from a large majority of the community, not one person saying, "hey PH, I didn't like that." So.....in my most humble two centsworthy opinion, I think it is up to those of us who are complaining via PM to start speaking up in public and prove the moderators justified in doing this kind of thing instead of b*tching about something, having them take action to appease us, and then not coming out and supporting them when they do take action. Where are all the people who PMd JJ saying they were offended by what was posted? I know him well enough to know that he wouldn't arbitrarily delete something simply because HE was the only one who didn't like it. That's just horsesh*t to even suggest. But that's what it ends up looking like when we don't support them when they do what we ask them to.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 8574
Location: under the weather
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:33 Post subject:
I pm'd jj to let him know that I was offended by the posts associating gay men with the NAMBLA
There! I am part of the conspiracy.
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Gogirlgo
Member
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:36 Post subject:
Why do I come here? Great question. Sometimes I come here to see what you all have done on the weekends. Sometimes I want to see how someone's race went. Sometimes I post things to make people laugh. Sometimes I need support. Sometimes I need to present an opposing view. Sometimes I need to see how you all feel about a matter. Apparently, being here helps me reinforce my values, helps me remember what I stand for. Why, what are you doing here?
If someone were to use the terms you just did which I find so abhorrent, it would reinforce to me that I don't value that, and that probably that person doesn't deserve my respect. That's not a bad lesson to learn.
I'm not saying we shouldn't all write with common decency. I'm saying that's a very hard thing to pin down exactly and I don't want there to be just one overriding view of what that means.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Joined: 17 May 2002
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:39 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I'm not saying we shouldn't all write with common decency. I'm saying that's a very hard thing to pin down exactly and I don't want there to be just one overriding view of what that means. |
broad vulgur statements about the activities of gay men or associating decent gay men in commited monogamous relationships (why else would they want to be married) with pedophiles (NAMBLA) is not writing with common decency. I don't think that one was too hard to pin down.
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Cappy
Excelent
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Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:41 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | purple hayes wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | Nor does someone need to leave because of a few bad dictatorial apples. |
Is that a slam against the moderators? |
Just find me the "bad dictatorial apple" online quiz and I'll take it!!!
I guarantee ya I've got plenty of lime and kiwi mixed in |
Pehaps PH should send all of us moderators to school
http://www.emoderators.com/moderators/sur_aera97.html
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Joined: 14 May 2002
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Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:42 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | Why do I come here? Great question. Sometimes I come here to see what you all have done on the weekends. Sometimes I want to see how someone's race went. Sometimes I post things to make people laugh. Sometimes I need support. Sometimes I need to present an opposing view. Sometimes I need to see how you all feel about a matter. Apparently, being here helps me reinforce my values, helps me remember what I stand for. Why, what are you doing here? |
Probably a little of all that, although lately I find myself less drawn here than usual. Oh well.....such is life.
| Quote: | | If someone were to use the terms you just did which I find so abhorrent, it would reinforce to me that I don't value that, and that probably that person doesn't deserve my respect. That's not a bad lesson to learn. |
Umm...but don't you already know that if you find those terms abhorrent that people who use them don't deserve your respect? And why is it OK that someone has to be hurt needlessly, someone who you might even consider a friend, for you to learn a lesson? How is that right?
| Quote: | | I'm not saying we shouldn't all write with common decency. I'm saying that's a very hard thing to pin down exactly and I don't want there to be just one overriding view of what that means. |
So then where do you personally draw the line? You reacted right away to what I said and I didn't even USE an anti-Semetic term, and I wouldn't out of respect for you and other Jewish people here separate of the fact that I don't find that kind of language appropriate anyway. Are you saying that you think part of our "standard" should be that we as a community allow such vileness to be hurled at one of our group in the name of "free speech"? If so, I think that's pretty rotten. 
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elkid
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Joined: 18 Nov 2002
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Location: hiding out in Philly
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:43 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | Nor does someone need to leave because of a few bad dictatorial apples. |
Is that a slam against the moderators? |
No. I do not attack people publicly, for that's against the forum rules. If I have a problem with someone, I PM them. After all, it's a community here.
| genie wrote: |
Again, you're twisting, twisting, twisssssting. I never said "go away, elkid, and take your liberal views that I disagree with along with you" now did I? I merely asked the question why would anyone want to stay somewhere that they didn't like the people, didn't like the way things were run, didn't like the way they felt "their side" was treated.......this is a voluntary participation site. We are all here because we choose to be here. I;m sure I'm projecting, because if I was that unhappy in a place I had the choice of leaving, and I really felt victimized, or otherwise sh*t on, I would leave. I guess I just don't understand why other people don't feel that way. I don't know how to spell that out any clearer. Did anyone ELSE out there understand what I said? |
No need to take it to the drama-filled Nth degree here. Here's the thing: for every one person that REALLY angers me here, there are many more that I really, genuinely like. People I've actually met, people with whom I'm very good friends. Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, leave this site simply because of that small segment of the population that annoys? I'm not going to leave here, a place where I get and have gotten advice, support, laughs, and lifelong friendships because of a few mudslinging, insensitive individuals.
Rather than ignore the people I like, I pick and choose the threads I respond to, the debates in which I engage myself (for which, by the way, I've been accused of being exclusionary, elitist, and snobbish  ). I try to handle it like a mature adult in public. I'm not always successful, because sometimes I just can't help myself, but I do try. If my answer to someone's question of "why do you believe that?" is "because I do", I don't discuss that. If I can't back up or substantiate an opinion or a reason as to why I disagree with someone, it can't be argued so I decline to discuss it. But if it's one of my "hot topics" and I can back it up - aka argue from an educated, justifiable perspective - then there you go. Game on. Some are threatened by that, some fear it, some are very glad because I argue when they feel they cannot.
And as we see above, it's all Keltic's fault. 
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:44 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | I'm not saying we shouldn't all write with common decency. I'm saying that's a very hard thing to pin down exactly and I don't want there to be just one overriding view of what that means. |
broad vulgur statements about the activities of gay men or associating decent gay men in commited monogamous relationships (why else would they want to be married) with pedophiles (NAMBLA) is not writing with common decency. I don't think that one was too hard to pin down. |
Major league supah size 
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:49 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, leave this site simply because of that small segment of the population that annoys? I'm not going to leave here, a place where I get and have gotten advice, support, laughs, and lifelong friendships because of a few mudslinging, insensitive individuals. |
But THEY aren't the ones you're complaining about. You're complaining about the censors, the ones stomping on everyone's right to free speech, despite the fact that what they were censoring was vile and crude and had no value to the discussion other than to hurt someone. At least that's what I am gathering from your earlier posts.
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Gogirlgo
Member
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:51 Post subject:
No it's not common decency. Now go kick some indecent ass with your own opinion.
Sometimes broad free speech will upset and annoy us. Our feelings may get hurt. Our views may get broadened. The knowledge that we have a lot of work to do if we want to make things better (however you view that) might be more apparent. Still, none of this justifies removal, in my opinion.
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