Why can't I get in to the last page of the gay marriage?
|
|
 
|
|
|
|
|
|
purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
|
| Back to top
|
|
 Posted: 03/01/04 - 12:34 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | Sorry, you can't have it both ways. It can't be Hard Ball when all the neo-cons go on for pages and pages about political stuff and then the minute another view, however unpleasant its perceived to be, comes in, decide it's a running forum.
This place has an identity crisis going on. |
What if it was a/some post(s) from a/some "neo-con(s)" that got deleted? Aren't you jumping to conclusions about what jrjo edited out?
|
|
|
|
|
genie
Master of Prissface
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 16194
Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 12:36 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | Sorry, you can't have it both ways. It can't be Hard Ball when all the neo-cons go on for pages and pages about political stuff and then the minute another view, however unpleasant its perceived to be, comes in, decide it's a running forum.
This place has an identity crisis going on. |
I'm surprised at you, Melissa. I know you love nothing more than to get this crowd stirred up, for whatever reason, but what in the F does it serve for me, for example, to call you filthy, derogatory names and insult you simply because we don't agree on an issue? What does that really contribute to the debate itself? This isn't about censorship as much as it is about common decency and respect. You're all about learning from debate and sharing differing points of view, but why it is OK to be rude and ignorant in the process?
And by rude and ignorant, I don't mean saying inane things like "you're stupid" I mean foul, nasty comments. THAT is what was deleted, not simply a "differing viewpoint." When the hell did our society become so twisted that common decency is lost in favor of winning an argument? That sickens me.
|
|
|
|
|
Gogirlgo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 12:53 Post subject:
I'm not saying I like to be called stupid, by anyone. And of course I agree that people should act like adults and have put all that behind them. But to censor someone is not the appropriate solution, I don't think, whether it's my brilliant, insightful view or someone else's insipid, vapid view. (Note sarcasm here).
And it doesn't matter whether the forum is private. Even if someone has a right to do something, it doesn't make it a good idea.
I'm surprised at all the ruckus this has caused. Go and look at your prior posts and see how kind/unkind you've been, and then ask whether you think it should have been censored. Even the most unkind thing still has value.
I try to understand why you all find words and/or ideas so threatening and for the life of me, I simply can't.
|
|
|
|
|
elkid
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 8353
Location: hiding out in Philly
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 12:55 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: | | As this is a privately owned forum, PH or his designates can: edit, censor, or delete, whatever they feel is offensive or over the top. |
If I'm reading correctly, this is the cornerstone of Gogirlgo's argument. That one person can steer/direct a discussion based on his/her personal beliefs because they're "in charge". In this particular case it seems that extraneous, unnecessary material was cut out. But the Lady Go has a valid point: in the past a lot of comments, opinions, and ideas have been censored and erased simply because an individual disagreed with it. Private forum or not, it's on a public domain, and it's insulting to an individual to be "told" their opinion lacks validity and purpose. No wonder so many people are disappearing from here.
| genie wrote: | | I'm surprised at you, Melissa. I know you love nothing more than to get this crowd stirred up |
That was unnecessary, G. Talk about inflammatory. I don't think she was rude or ignorant, but honest. If common decency were truly important here, that thread would've been locked a long time ago. I was very offended, disturbed, and upset by the indignation, callousness, and rudeness of comments in that thread. I stayed out of it out of respect for a few individuals here whom I'm close to that have very different belief systems than me. For ME to feel that way you know it's bad, and I know more than a few others were equally as disturbed. Again, the Lady Go has a valid point: it seems OK that the more conservative arguments get leeway because that's the demographic here, but god forbid you bring up a liberal one (like a very significant Congressional Act last week) without getting held up to ridicule, attacked, or reprimanded.
|
|
|
|
|
Cappy
Excelent
|
|
|
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 12:59 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I try to understand why you all find words and/or ideas so threatening and for the life of me, I simply can't. |
So you are advocating slanderous and libel behavior as a way of communicating, with no recourse whatsoever to said communicator afterall they are just words
|
|
|
|
|
genie
Master of Prissface
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 16194
Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:03 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | That was unnecessary, G. Talk about inflammatory. I don't think she was rude or ignorant, but honest. If common decency were truly important here, that thread would've been locked a long time ago. I was very offended, disturbed, and upset by the indignation, callousness, and rudeness of comments in that thread. I stayed out of it out of respect for a few individuals here whom I'm close to that have very different belief systems than me. For ME to feel that way you know it's bad, and I know more than a few others were equally as disturbed. Again, the Lady Go has a valid point: it seems OK that the more conservative arguments get leeway because that's the demographic here, but god forbid you bring up a liberal one (like a very significant Congressional Act last week) without getting held up to ridicule, attacked, or reprimanded. |
Did I SAY she was rude or ignorant? Stop trying to put words in my mouth to prove your point. I'm not repeating what I said because I think everyone here's intelligent enough to read it for themselves. You're right, more than a few individuals WERE equally as disturbed, but perhaps Mega was right: maybe if more people spoke up in PUBLIC instead of simply PMing the moderators, things would change.
And as far as inflammatory, let's talk about "hey fasicst pig" and "you want a manifesto, go to CR."  No one has to stay here if they don't like the people or the environment. Why do you think so many of us gravitated here from other sites, running or otherwise?
|
|
|
|
|
jrjo
Gone Fishin
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16451
Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:05 Post subject:
Okay.. I took the quiz to find out if I'm this "neo-con" creature.
Let's see.. a few neo-con answers, quite a few libertarian, paleoconservative, liberal, centrist, conservative... whoa, I'm all over the board  Whew.. for a minute there, I thought I might be some awful Suess Once-ler.
|
|
|
|
|
genie
Master of Prissface
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 16194
Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:06 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | Even the most unkind thing still has value.
|
And I'm sure you'd still feel that way if people here started making blatantly anti-Semetic comments.
|
|
|
|
|
purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:08 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | But the Lady Go has a valid point: in the past a lot of comments, opinions, and ideas have been censored and erased simply because an individual disagreed with it. |
Define 'a lot'. I don't have records to back it up, but I'd guess that <0.0001% of the posts here get censored.
|
|
|
|
|
Gogirlgo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:10 Post subject:
Yeah, Greg. That's my exact point. Long live libel.
First of all, get your terms right. Slander is for the spoken word. Libel is for written. The behavior is "libelous" not "libel." Second of all, I don't advocate that sort of behavior. I believe in recourse. But there are various types of recourse, of which censorship is only one, and I believe, the poorest choice.
In fact, Genie, what the Kid says is true. What you wrote wasn't nice. And frankly the truth of it highly subjective. But you have a perfect right to it. Even if I were to get very offended, you still have a right to its being seen and not censored.
Do you understand now? By valuing censorship, you're saying only one view can prevail. By not valuing censorship, you're saying the voices and thoughts of the people on this forum matter.
|
|
|
|
|
purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:12 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | Let's see.. a few neo-con answers, quite a few libertarian, paleoconservative, liberal, centrist, conservative... whoa, I'm all over the board |
See, that's what I don't like about you. You're very wishy-washy.
|
|
|
|
|
Gogirlgo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:13 Post subject:
Thanks, Genie, I appreciate the hit. It's funny how you act as though there's never been anything anti-Semitic on this board before. Say whatever you want about my tribe, because even the biggest, most vile Jew-hater has a right to her view. Her uncensored view.
|
|
|
|
|
purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:14 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I believe in recourse. But there are various types of recourse, of which censorship is only one, and I believe, the poorest choice. |
Then how would you have handled the situation? What other types of recourse would you recommend?
|
|
|
|
|
Cappy
Excelent
|
|
|
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:17 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | Yeah, Greg. That's my exact point. Long live libel.
First of all, get your terms right. Slander is for the spoken word. Libel is for written. The behavior is "libelous" not "libel." Second of all, I don't advocate that sort of behavior. I believe in recourse. But there are various types of recourse, of which censorship is only one, and I believe, the poorest choice. |
Well you get the idea of what I mean.
I am going to take a nitro now
|
|
|
|
|
elkid
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 8353
Location: hiding out in Philly
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 03/01/04 - 13:18 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | Did I SAY she was rude or ignorant? Stop trying to put words in my mouth to prove your point. |
Yes, you did: You're all about learning from debate and sharing differing points of view, but why it is OK to be rude and ignorant in the process? Look up a few posts.
| Quote: | | but perhaps Mega was right: maybe if more people spoke up in PUBLIC instead of simply PMing the moderators, things would change. |
On that point, we agree. But I think people fear the reaction they'll get if they actually voice an unpopular opinion, particularly if they can back it up. Really, who wants to be labeled "the next elkid" or "Gogirlgo part two"?
| Quote: | | No one has to stay here if they don't like the people or the environment. |
Nor does someone need to leave because of a few bad dictatorial apples.
|
|
|
|
| |
All times are GMT - 4 Hours
|
|
|
