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wanttorun100
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 Posted: 01/05/06 - 17:28 Post subject: Why Afghanistan and Iraq
The attacks on the Pentagon and WTC showed us that there are folks out there that are either at war with us or really want to kick us in the balls.
The specific bunch of NeoIslamists is said to be in Afghanistan and/or Packistan. So the President sent US forces to Afghanistan. Now Afghanistan is one of the poorest countries in the world which might explain why a nation state could be overrun by a batch of NeoIslamists. The US fairly quickly runs said NeoIslamists into the hills.
Now at the same time there is Iraq. Run by this ruthless dictator ( he might even be more worser than the chimp) name of Sodom. In the past he's gassed his own people ( uh hem used WMD) , invaded his neighbor, plotted to assisinate the President of the US, killed dozens, no hundreds, no thosands of his own people. He also engaged in a Arab version of hide the sausage with weapon inspectors. Claiming he had no WMD loudly while jacking around the inspectors enough to make it pretty clear that he did have them. Also there was evidence that he was looking to get into the nuke business again. Iraq is a nation state with fairly significant resources, an industrial capacity. That is Iraq had the capability of producing all sorts of stuff like say nukler weapons.
So the President finds himself with
Iraq mucking around with WMD
Combined with the fact that we just got kicked in the balls and it's likely more of the same is comming if it can be done
The President decides that it's likely that Sodom has WMD and would dearly love to give it to whatever band of NeoIslamists that comes down the pike. Who would then happily nuke say New York. So rather than sit back and take it in the shorts he decides to act.
Either that or the mindless chimp did it so his buddies could make some oil money.
You decide.
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j1miller
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Posted: 01/05/06 - 17:33 Post subject:
I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
But, for me, the oil and money justifies it.
Call me what you want, but most wars (if not all wars) are started for money and this one is no different. So call it what it is and get on with it.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/05/06 - 18:36 Post subject:
| j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 01/05/06 - 19:33 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
But then wouldn't we wonder why N. Korea isn't on the menu. Maybe they are????? I think the difference is "close" to having them and "having" them. Their leaders are both such kind men. I'm not concerned about evidence, but I would like to know "why" we thought there were/is WMD?? Can't that info be provided? Did they come across a bill for UR.....what??? I wouldn't think National Security would be breach if they relieved what piece of paper, what conversation tipped us off.
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Phar lap
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Posted: 01/05/06 - 20:59 Post subject:
Once upon a time there was a wepons inspector who set out looking for wepons of mass destruction. Along the way he met an old man wailing because he had lost his donkey.
'Never mind,' said the wepons inspector, 'I'll help you find it'
'You'll have to carry me,' said the old man.'I'm lame'
So the inspector carried the old man on his back as they set off in the hot sun in search of the donkey. They searched in vain for ten miles along the road, until they came to the villiage where the old man lived.
'A thousand thankyous,' said the old man as he alighted at his doorstep from the back of the exhausted wepons inspector.
The old man's wife opened the door.
'I hope your husband finds his donkey tommorow,' said the stooped inspector.
'Don't worry,' replied the woman ' he usually finds one.'
And so the inspector resumed his search for wepons of mass destruction.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 01/05/06 - 21:38 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
He used them, didn't he? Gassing the kurds or was it against the Iranians? He used them. The assumption would be that he still had them when we went in.
Just my thought.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 00:43 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
I'd say the rather large pile of gassed Kurds (and I beleive Iranians) is pretty strong evidence.
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j1miller
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 09:46 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
I just believe that he did. I trust the President's judgment. Sometimes, as in this case, I take things on faith. I have to believe that he knows more about it than I do.
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j1miller
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 09:48 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
But then wouldn't we wonder why N. Korea isn't on the menu. Maybe they are????? I think the difference is "close" to having them and "having" them. Their leaders are both such kind men. I'm not concerned about evidence, but I would like to know "why" we thought there were/is WMD?? Can't that info be provided? Did they come across a bill for UR.....what??? I wouldn't think National Security would be breach if they relieved what piece of paper, what conversation tipped us off. |
Perhaps N. Korea is on the list.... remember, they were mentioned as part of the Axis of evil, weren't they?
I think that they strategy might be to take them down one at a time, although, I am not privy to that information....
N. Korea is a whole other can of worms...
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j1miller
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 09:48 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
He used them, didn't he? Gassing the kurds or was it against the Iranians? He used them. The assumption would be that he still had them when we went in.
Just my thought. |
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andydp
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 10:25 Post subject:
| j1miller wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | I really, honestly believe that Iraq either had hidden somewhere, or was close to obtaining WMD. It is also enough to go to war for the crimes against humanity.
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What evidence leads you to believe he had WMD? It may have been enought to go to war for crimes against humanity, but then that should have been given as the reason. |
I just believe that he did. I trust the President's judgment. Sometimes, as in this case, I take things on faith. I have to believe that he knows more about it than I do. |
I also believe Saddam had the WMD at one point. I also believe we had to go in to get rid of him. At the President's level you can get a Manhattan phone book sized pile of evidence he had WMD and you could get a same sized pile that says he didn't. I'll go with the President making the best choice with the info available to him.
Since I spent 28 years in the military I'll just say the post war planning was either poor or non existent. There was no contingency planning for what happened after Saddam fell. This is basic, level 101 military planning. I do not believe they went in with the right mix of forces and did not have the "nation building" elements ready to go. I was in the NY NG HQ when Desert Storm happened. Lots of activity and planning. This time it was rather "mellow".
Now that we're there, we need to finish the job. We cannot just say "we're leaving on Dec 12." Because you know what will happen. We have to set targets of development of the Iraqi Army and Police. Then when certain milestones are met we leave. I'm cerain the Iraqis want us out of there as soon as possible also.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 10:32 Post subject:
course isn't it true the first casualty of any operation is 'The Plan' ?
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j1miller
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 10:37 Post subject:
I'll be honest, if I were the person writing "the plan" I would pull out all the troops and fly a big plane over the country and level the place. I have no tolerance for people with the belief system that seems to be prevelent over there. I realize that many, many innocent people would be killed, but to be honest, I don't give a rats ass.
Yes, I am an evil wench.
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andydp
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Posted: 01/06/06 - 12:11 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | course isn't it true the first casualty of any operation is 'The Plan' ? |
Clausevitz said the best plan is thrown away when the first bullet is fired. Yes, plans are merely guidelines but you always plan for the worst and use every single available resource. Just in my cursory observations, this was not done.
As for leveling the country, even when God destroyed Gomorrah he spared Lot because he was "righteous". You can't blame all the people in any country for the actions of a small number. In the case of Iraq its estimated about 10,000 out of millions.
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