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| Which is it Mr. President |
| Removal of WMD. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Removal of Terrorists. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Liberate Iraq. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Removal of terrorists associated with 9-11. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Nobody knows, we are just making it up as we go! |
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100% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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sonnylax
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Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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 Posted: 07/08/05 - 07:50 Post subject:
| tdassow wrote: | It is a mistake to assume that the culture of Iraq can be changed quickly after thousands of years of history.
The question still remains, "Now What?" |
I don't think many people assumed you could change the culture of Iraq overnight. It's a (very large) mistake to think that if we just ignore the problem, radical Islam will leave us the rest of the world alone to live in peace. They want to convert us to Islam and when that doesn't happen they want to kill us as "infidels."
The only way to combat terrorism is to kill terrorists. How many more attacks on free societies must we endure to realize this simple factoid? How many more deaths to we have to endure? Is there a finite number in which some folks will finally admit we are engaged in WW3 now? The more and more I learn, I'm personally of the opinion that Islam is not a religion but a cult. I'm sure some folks will blame Bush/Israel/Karl Rove/Gitmo/Haliburton for yesterday's attacks in London instead of dealing with reality.
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Gogirlgo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 08:45 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
The only way to combat terrorism is to kill terrorists. |
What an incredibly short-sighted view.
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TOsteve
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 10:40 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
What an incredibly short-sighted view. |
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kristin31
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Location: Caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 10:53 Post subject:
| TOsteve wrote: |
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That puts us in the same category as the terrorists, does it not?
What does one say of a society that perpetrates the same crime on it's criminals as they committed?
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runaroundsue
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Location: supporting GREENer pastures
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 12:52 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
What an incredibly short-sighted view. |
I disagree. I would say contrite view. We cannot get into the "thick" of combatting terrorism with totally clean hands. Yet "dirty" hands always have to answer to the masses of perfect people in our perfect lives.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 13:08 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
The more and more I learn, I'm personally of the opinion that Islam is not a religion but a cult. |
Been reading this book, huh? 
About the killing terrorists, I'm mixed. On one hand it is necessary to eliminate those who are actively working to attack the United States. But the whole "War on Terror" is kind of pointless because it can't end. It's not an open ended war, it's a perpetual war because there will always be someone willing to commit an act of terrorism and even if every member of Al Qaeda is killed and every seed of the organization is gone, something else will rise as a terrorist organization. This isn't to mention other organizations like Hamas or terrorists focusing on other countries for other reasons. Are we going to fight those too?
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copteacher
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Joined: 08 Jun 2002
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Location: Teaching in the Halls of Justice
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 16:29 Post subject:
I am not quite sure what the answer is but these people must learn that in civilized society people with beefs and griefs try diplomacy. They choose to be cowards and arm little kids with bombs and make false promises to them about 70 virgins.
I know that the terrorist must realize we mean business. We have to take them seriously and let them know their actions will not be tolerated.
They may have problems with us but they aint making points killing 3000 people.
The solution is not pulling troops out. Not giving into their demands and not appeasing them. They are committed people who are hell bent on world domination. Yes I am a big advocate of big stick diplomacy but these people know no other way.
I want the pundits to make suggestions of how to solve the terrorism problem. It is not an easy solution.
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TOsteve
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 16:46 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: |
I want the pundits to make suggestions of how to solve the terrorism problem. It is not an easy solution. |
Umm, I have a suggestion....
We could eliminate a lot of terrorism if the rich nations of the world stopped supporting corporations that exploited the poor for their human and natural resources.
Oh, we could also stop bombing the crap out of impoverished nations too.
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copteacher
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 16:54 Post subject:
| TOsteve wrote: |
Umm, I have a suggestion....
We could eliminate a lot of terrorism if the rich nations of the world stopped supporting corporations that exploited the poor for their human and natural resources.
Oh, we could also stop bombing the crap out of impoverished nations too. |
beside Afghanistan and Iraq what other countries are we bombing.
I believe the terrorists are bombing rich countries like US Spain and the UK.
this aint about only money. Most of the terrorism as one single factor and commonality.
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TOsteve
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 17:05 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: |
beside Afghanistan and Iraq what other countries are we bombing. |
Does it seem absurd to anyone that one can be content because you're only occupying two third world countries right now?
| rtpd113 wrote: |
I believe the terrorists are bombing rich countries like US Spain and the UK.
this aint about only money. Most of the terrorism as one single factor and commonality. |
The economic exploitation and bombing breeds hatred for the west - and we have to be honest with ourselves, these kinds of injustices are inexcusable.
This gives fuel to terrorist recruitment. From the terrorist standpoint, its not about money at all, its about using exploited people's feeling of violation to turn them toward their fanatic cause.
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copteacher
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 18:33 Post subject:
Steve I hardly call Iraq a 3rd world country.
How come the muslims are not bombing China, they do a fair share of exploiting also?
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TOsteve
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Posted: 07/08/05 - 19:37 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | Steve I hardly call Iraq a 3rd world country. |
It's off topic but for the sake of clarity - although there is no 'official' defintion or what constitutes the third world common characteristics of third world nations are the following:
| Quote: |
- highly dependent economies devoted to producing primary products for the developed world
- traditional, rural social structures
- high population growth
- widespread poverty |
Despite its wealth of oil resources Iraq is still widely considered a third world nation.
| rtpd113 wrote: |
How come the muslims are not bombing China, they do a fair share of exploiting also? |
I think peoples of the Middle East are more likely to view China as an ally - in large part because they have become a large supplier of arms to the region (especially Iran).
China still doesn't quite have the economic strength to impose the same kind of international trade pressure or overt military pressure as the US. Because of this, it seems China has taken a different strategic path. In recent years they have done their best to change their international posture and foster cordial relations with the oil producing nations of the Mid East to maintain some kind of insurance for access to future energy supplies from this region.
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phillycat
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Posts: 1953
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Posted: 07/09/05 - 14:27 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | Steve I hardly call Iraq a 3rd world country.
How come the muslims are not bombing China, they do a fair share of exploiting also? |
What would you call it then?
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16451
Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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Posted: 07/10/05 - 16:24 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | Again, let's see what the history books say in 25 years about all of this. |
I don't think we need to wait that long.
If there's truth in 'the numbers', it's hard to argue with...
• 47 countries have re-established their embassies in Iraq.
• The Iraqi government employs 1.2 million Iraqi people.
• 3,100 schools have been renovated; 364 schools are under rehabilitation; 263 schools are now under construction, and 38 new schools have been built in Iraq.
• Iraq's higher educational structure consists of 20 universities, 46 institutes or colleges and four research centers.
• 25 Iraqi students departed for the United States in January 2004 for the re-established Fulbright program.
• The Iraqi Navy is operational with five 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.
• Iraq's Air Force consists of three operational squadrons, 9 reconnaissance and three US C-130 transport aircraft which operate day and night, and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and four Bell jet rangers.
• Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a commando battalion.
• The Iraqi Police Service has more than 55,000 fully-trained and equipped police officers.
• There are five police academies in Iraq that produce more than 3,500 new officers every eight weeks.
• There are more than 1,100 building projects going on in Iraq. They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.
• Two candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a televised debate recently
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