What have you notice that's missing from (see inside)
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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 Posted: 06/10/04 - 10:18 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | Television...
The average American watches 30-hours a week! Adult men is 29, women is 34 and kids average 28.
We all agree so often that the tube is filled with crap. And many of us are way below average, but that just means that many are way above average. For MILLIONS of kids, the tube is a baby-sitter, it's the single most time consuming quantity-wise thing they do.
How do parents expect to counteract an influence like that with a couple weekly outings of maybe 10-hours a week? Or give a lesson in manners when kids see disprectful characters hours and hours a week? Or how elders are treated like old fools often on tv when kids might visit their grandparents a couple times a month for a handful of hours? Where's the greater influence? Men are characterized as bumbling fools on most shows. No wonder so many young women treat them that way and young men appropriately act so.
I firmly believe the influence of the tube in the last 30 years leads the pack in how our society has become a disprectful, bad mannered, foul mouthed, finger pointing culture. The next time you surf through primetime programs, think about the millions of kids soaking up the put-downs and the violence and the lack of compassion for fellow man.
I won't for a minute believe anyone that says their above it. At some level, to some degree, a person's behavior changes. It might not be apparent today or tomorrow, but over the years and accumulative in society as a whole, I put the biggest blame on Hollywood. Kids and so many people locked in their homes at night soaking in all this "entertainment" are filling their minds with examples of how to act and what to say in situations. Isn't it apparent, even here in Riff-raff how often we "quote" a line from a movie or a tv show? It's an influence we don't care to admit, but the fiber of personalities is more and more becoming mirrors of Hollywood in more and more conversations. The days of quoting philosophers or poets or the great thinkers of this world are over. The lyrics of videos or lines from movies are a constant noise.
The culture is sliding little by little, day by day. And it's not noticeable until you look back in retrospect. When Snoop doggy dog gets quoted more often than Benjamin Franklin or Mark Twain, you know it's  |
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 10:37 Post subject:
I agree with all that say the crap being shown on tv is just that - crap. But to blame the media for the way ones children turn out is wrong. It is a parents responsibility to teach a child his/her core values so that said child recognizes crap when exposed to it. I believe parents are shirking that responsibility in a big way for a variety of reasons and not many of them are valid reasons.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 10:41 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | I agree with all that say the crap being shown on tv is just that - crap. But to blame the media for the way ones children turn out is wrong. It is a parents responsibility to teach a child his/her core values so that said child recognizes crap when exposed to it. I believe parents are shirking that responsibility in a big way for a variety of reasons and not many of them are valid reasons. |
Totally with you there. What I don't think parents realize is the influence of time. If a parent spends a Sunday afternoon with their kid trying to "undo" the 28 hours of crap they watched that week, it just isn't going to work. Definitely, parents need to be in the driver's seat and reign in what influences are put on their kids.
My stance is certainly that parents are the number one line of defense out there, but when it comes to the number one offence working against them, it's Hollywood.
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 10:47 Post subject:
Another thing i see missing are basic manners.
rarely does someone say "Sorry" for a gentle bump, it's considered a norm and deal with it.
"Thank you" and "Please" in the work place. It's "Give me a pen!!!", "Thow this into the shredder." never put as a question it's expected you will do it but never asked.
I tend to look at my cow-workers and remind them the "magic" words.
If we can't respect each other at "mature ages" how can we expect the kids to pick up the habits?
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kattzoo
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 10:54 Post subject:
Shhh...you're interupting my rerun of "The Nanny" on Lifetime. Excellent point, however.
| jrjo wrote: | Television...
The average American watches 30-hours a week! Adult men is 29, women is 34 and kids average 28.
We all agree so often that the tube is filled with crap. And many of us are way below average, but that just means that many are way above average. For MILLIONS of kids, the tube is a baby-sitter, it's the single most time consuming quantity-wise thing they do.
How do parents expect to counteract an influence like that with a couple weekly outings of maybe 10-hours a week? Or give a lesson in manners when kids see disprectful characters hours and hours a week? Or how elders are treated like old fools often on tv when kids might visit their grandparents a couple times a month for a handful of hours? Where's the greater influence? Men are characterized as bumbling fools on most shows. No wonder so many young women treat them that way and young men appropriately act so.
I firmly believe the influence of the tube in the last 30 years leads the pack in how our society has become a disprectful, bad mannered, foul mouthed, finger pointing culture. The next time you surf through primetime programs, think about the millions of kids soaking up the put-downs and the violence and the lack of compassion for fellow man.
I won't for a minute believe anyone that says their above it. At some level, to some degree, a person's behavior changes. It might not be apparent today or tomorrow, but over the years and accumulative in society as a whole, I put the biggest blame on Hollywood. Kids and so many people locked in their homes at night soaking in all this "entertainment" are filling their minds with examples of how to act and what to say in situations. Isn't it apparent, even here in Riff-raff how often we "quote" a line from a movie or a tv show? It's an influence we don't care to admit, but the fiber of personalities is more and more becoming mirrors of Hollywood in more and more conversations. The days of quoting philosophers or poets or the great thinkers of this world are over. The lyrics of videos or lines from movies are a constant noise.
The culture is sliding little by little, day by day. And it's not noticeable until you look back in retrospect. When Snoop doggy dog gets quoted more often than Benjamin Franklin or Mark Twain, you know it's |
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RangerG
Bounty Hunter
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 11:41 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
But the main question is, how and why (and when, I guess) did things shift so radically from when we were kids? |
Try Dr. Spock.
BTW..He spent the last few years of his life trying to undo what he had put in that baby book. He lamented that no one was listening to him.
My Dad figured it was when they started letting the "bad guys" win in movies and TV shows.
What do kids have for role models? Coke snorting, overpaid, gangster sports pros? Nice....... 
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 11:46 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | Television...
The average American watches 30-hours a week! Adult men is 29, women is 34 and kids average 28.
We all agree so often that the tube is filled with crap. And many of us are way below average, but that just means that many are way above average. For MILLIONS of kids, the tube is a baby-sitter, it's the single most time consuming quantity-wise thing they do.
How do parents expect to counteract an influence like that with a couple weekly outings of maybe 10-hours a week? Or give a lesson in manners when kids see disprectful characters hours and hours a week? Or how elders are treated like old fools often on tv when kids might visit their grandparents a couple times a month for a handful of hours? Where's the greater influence? Men are characterized as bumbling fools on most shows. No wonder so many young women treat them that way and young men appropriately act so.
I firmly believe the influence of the tube in the last 30 years leads the pack in how our society has become a disprectful, bad mannered, foul mouthed, finger pointing culture. The next time you surf through primetime programs, think about the millions of kids soaking up the put-downs and the violence and the lack of compassion for fellow man.
I won't for a minute believe anyone that says their above it. At some level, to some degree, a person's behavior changes. It might not be apparent today or tomorrow, but over the years and accumulative in society as a whole, I put the biggest blame on Hollywood. Kids and so many people locked in their homes at night soaking in all this "entertainment" are filling their minds with examples of how to act and what to say in situations. Isn't it apparent, even here in Riff-raff how often we "quote" a line from a movie or a tv show? It's an influence we don't care to admit, but the fiber of personalities is more and more becoming mirrors of Hollywood in more and more conversations. The days of quoting philosophers or poets or the great thinkers of this world are over. The lyrics of videos or lines from movies are a constant noise.
The culture is sliding little by little, day by day. And it's not noticeable until you look back in retrospect. When Snoop doggy dog gets quoted more often than Benjamin Franklin or Mark Twain, you know it's |
Kids aren't born in front of TVs. Parents (also known as the generation behind them) set them there, didn't establish any values for kids to evaluate and disregard the trash on TV as they left them there to be babysat by Rikki Lake. Lack of Discipline being instilled from this previous generation is another reason. Our change to being very money driven (as opposed to values driven) society is another reason. Like my post yesterday about music, the real song writers are not the ones being given big record contracts and airplay.
I guess I think blaming TV/Hollywood is a little too convenient, its bigger than just that.
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scorch99
Member
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 11:47 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | Another thing i see missing are basic manners.
rarely does someone say "Sorry" for a gentle bump, it's considered a norm and deal with it.
"Thank you" and "Please" in the work place. It's "Give me a pen!!!", "Thow this into the shredder." never put as a question it's expected you will do it but never asked.
|
This is sooooooooooo true.
My step-mom has a grand son around 8 yrs old now. Every time I go down there to visit he come to me and says:
"Uncle scorch give me a dollar."
me:give you a dollar?????
yes.
no, do you know why.
nope
you ask not demand....
I did.....I said give me a dollar...my mom ask grandma that...
its downhill after that.
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Noley
AZhat
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 11:51 Post subject:
With some kids...R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
I had students one year tell me that they were going to "report" another teacher they had for assigning too much homework. When asked "why?"...they didn't have any great explaination. I probed further and said, "Why do you feel that you have to go to the office to complain about Ms. A?". They answered..."WE HAVE OUR RIGHTS YOU KNOW..."
Like, they know that they can "cry wolf" anytime they want to because things seem unfair to them? I would never have said that I was going to the office to complain about homework because "I had rights".
There were kids who thought that they "walked on water" and didn't have to do anything assigned to them or what they were told.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 11:56 Post subject:
Where does this sense of entitlement come from in kids? (I'm asking) Why does this younger generation feel they can dictate whatever they want? That they have power? That they should or shouldn't do something strictly because that is the way they want it? In my eyes (or experience as a 'kid') I didn't have any 'rights' until I was on my own. It was all my mom and dad and their rules. If I didn't like it, well I could cry myself to sleep at night or I could deal with it and I never thought otherwise. I guess I don't understand this new attitude or where its from.
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scorch99
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 12:10 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | | Where does this sense of entitlement come from in kids? (I'm asking) Why does this younger generation feel they can dictate whatever they want? That they have power? That they should or shouldn't do something strictly because that is the way they want it? In my eyes (or experience as a 'kid') I didn't have any 'rights' until I was on my own. It was all my mom and dad and their rules. If I didn't like it, well I could cry myself to sleep at night or I could deal with it and I never thought otherwise. I guess I don't understand this new attitude or where its from. |
This sounds really bad and I'm using the context of blame it on:
OJ
24 all news all the time
word of mouth by others.
Its one thing to listen to stories of how your parents protested and marched cause there were doing something they felt would be benefit to the next generation.
Somehow in some folks that got warped into so many different points of view that others will (to coin a phrase) "cry Wolf" to get out of having to do the work.
S99
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omega lambda
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 12:12 Post subject:
How many of us grew up with a working father and stay-at-home mother? How many of us grew up with two working parents? Sometimes, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I'll probably take a lot of heat for this, but I think jrjo has a point that parents are the biggest influence to children, yet if both of them work, the parents' sphere of influence shrinks, and someone else's increases. Add to that, that two working parents (or a single working parent) have a lot of work to do when they are home so that their attention is divided, maybe kidlets ARE learning too much from television, books, peers and whoever.
Yet there is evidence that contradicts this, so it certainly can't be the only reason.
Still, I wonder.
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omega lambda
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 12:15 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | | Where does this sense of entitlement come from in kids? (I'm asking) Why does this younger generation feel they can dictate whatever they want? That they have power? That they should or shouldn't do something strictly because that is the way they want it? In my eyes (or experience as a 'kid') I didn't have any 'rights' until I was on my own. It was all my mom and dad and their rules. If I didn't like it, well I could cry myself to sleep at night or I could deal with it and I never thought otherwise. I guess I don't understand this new attitude or where its from. |
And I would consider you to be a part of a generation that has those attitudes. Would you agree? How do some of the folks in your age group think/behave? And yet you're not that way, and from what you say here, it's because of what you learned from your parents.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 12:16 Post subject:
| omega lambda wrote: | | How many of us grew up with a working father and stay-at-home mother? How many of us grew up with two working parents? Sometimes, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I'll probably take a lot of heat for this, but I think jrjo has a point that parents are the biggest influence to children, yet if both of them work, the parents' sphere of influence shrinks, and someone else's increases. Add to that, that two working parents (or a single working parent) have a lot of work to do when they are home so that their attention is divided, maybe kidlets ARE learning too much from television, books, peers and whoever. |
[HIJACK]
And we can thank our imperial federal government for a higher tax load than our parents and grandparents paid in their day forcing more parents to work outside of the home. If taxes were lower, families would have more income to spend on themselves and more parents wouldn't be forced to work to generate income.
[/HIJACK]
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Noley
AZhat
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Posted: 06/10/04 - 12:20 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | | Where does this sense of entitlement come from in kids? (I'm asking) Why does this younger generation feel they can dictate whatever they want? That they have power? That they should or shouldn't do something strictly because that is the way they want it? In my eyes (or experience as a 'kid') I didn't have any 'rights' until I was on my own. It was all my mom and dad and their rules. If I didn't like it, well I could cry myself to sleep at night or I could deal with it and I never thought otherwise. I guess I don't understand this new attitude or where its from. |
A lot has to do with kids these days knowing that they can have comfort reporting "abuse" whenever they want to. I've heard the kids say that their parent's cannot lay a hand on them...a teacher cannot lay a hand on them (which we are advised not to even touch the kids)...a pastor cannot lay a hand on them...etc. So, they take it a step further and think that it's ok to think they are abused when things aren't going their way (like having to run in PE, a teacher that is strict or do a lengthy homework assignment).
I'm not talking about the child who is seriously being abused. I have had them in my class and they get attention when it is discovered. I'm talking about the child who's crass and snotty enough to know that he/she will have a say if they cry out about whatever they want to. They're manipulative and spoiled. They will throw that "I've got rights" in your face...because they know that they cannot be touched or abused.
Do you get this? They're snotty, disrespectful, kids. They think they should rule the roost. I would hear it all of the time in my classroom. Why they had that comfort to say these things around me?  I'd typically try to set them straight and tell them that reporting "abuse" is a serious matter. Not to cry out just because they didn't like something...
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