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copteacher
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 Posted: 07/23/06 - 21:32 Post subject: VETO
the first one is quite controversial.
Of course the media is spinning it completely wrong. It just stops federal funding. The media seems to think that it is stopping the whole process.
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 06:37 Post subject:
While it may only stop federal funding, it also signals our scientists in the field of stem cell research to go to other countries such as England where more research is available including monies from various governments.
It also shows the interference of religion in our government. So much for separation of church and state.
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copteacher
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 07:08 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | While it may only stop federal funding, it also signals our scientists in the field of stem cell research to go to other countries such as England where more research is available including monies from various governments.
It also shows the interference of religion in our government. So much for separation of church and state. |
It shows principle not religion.
There is a whole heck of a lot more private funding and research.
It would be the same thing if the pulled $ for cancer or aids research. The research still goes on.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 09:28 Post subject:
The veto is significant not just because of the impact it will have on stem cell research (which it will as the majority of major research is being carried through the NIH and other federal agencies), but also because it shows once again how far the President will go to appease the far, religious right. If he doesn't have them, he doesn't have anybody.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 14:51 Post subject:
This is a hard subject for me. On one hand as a scientist I see the need for stem cell research. However, I feel that if we let this go through then we leave the door open for research to be done on human embryos and people may start aborting for that purpose.
Tough one.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 15:29 Post subject:
For those that are against stem cell research, do you think IVF should be allowed and if so, should couple be allowed to create more embryos that might not be used? What should happen to unused embryos?
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Capt Kirk
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 16:47 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | For those that are against stem cell research, do you think IVF should be allowed and if so, should couple be allowed to create more embryos that might not be used? What should happen to unused embryos? |
My wife and I were disucssing this aspect last night. My wife had a great thought: require parents of these embryos to state specifically what will be done to the remaining, unused fertilized eggs (retain storage, dispose, transfer for research, make available for adoption by someone else, etc.) Once the parents have their child(ren), do they even really know what happens to the remaining embryos?
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 17:16 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | For those that are against stem cell research, do you think IVF should be allowed and if so, should couple be allowed to create more embryos that might not be used? What should happen to unused embryos? |
well, I'm not against it, I have fears of it going for wrong use, I've seen it now with IVF in cases such as Joan Lunden and Elizabeth Edwards. I always have that problem with putting too much "creation" in the hands of medicine. However that said, since giveth and taketh away are already legal, I don't understand the religious problem with "let's do something good with what was given and tossed". The frozen embryos just adds more fuel to my confusion, I guess people would say it's wrong to destroy them, but it's okay to keep them on ice for eternity????? I actually think it's more humane to use the stem cells for good.
I used to be bothered by the thought of what Diva brings up. Someone actually trying to get pregnant to create a donor. The more I think about it, the more I think I need to stop thinking about it. If my neighbor thinks it would be morally right to do this inorder to save a child that she has known and raised for 5 years, I cannot judge, I'd only be thankful that I didn't have to face everyday knowing that there was a way to possibly save a life of loved one and the means was legal but obtaining the tissue was not.
So, as long as we can legally create and legally destroy life, I would think it morally not right to have this medical option available to a person.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 21:13 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | This is a hard subject for me. On one hand as a scientist I see the need for stem cell research. However, I feel that if we let this go through then we leave the door open for research to be done on human embryos and people may start aborting for that purpose.
Tough one. |
I am curious as to how you give thought that you are a scientist, yet disregard science when it doesn't fit your religion. But staying on topic, I agree with your post. Except that I don't see the need for research, I just think it's another way of perpetuating life.
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 07:45 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | If my neighbor thinks it would be morally right to do this inorder to save a child that she has known and raised for 5 years, I cannot judge, I'd only be thankful that I didn't have to face everyday knowing that there was a way to possibly save a life of loved one and the means was legal but obtaining the tissue was not.
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welcome to my world.
i'm wondering if anyone can answer what does happen to frozen embryos after parents have decided their family is complete? i believe they are destroyed which seems to add insult to this whole issue
why can't parents stipulate what becomes of their unused frozen cells?
i'm way too personally involved here to post unsarcastically, unbitterly, unbiased...but suffice to say voting for Mr. Bush has played out to be the worst thing i have ever done in my life, for reasons i can not even begin to put into words. he is not a principled man, if he had principles and conviction, he would have been living face to face with either juvenile diabetes, parkinsons, MS, or another life threatening condition; watching a family member struggle with it 24/7/365, if it were truly in his face and personal space, if he saw it up close and personal and not from a podium, if he ever got closer than a billboard, if one of his daughters had neuropathy in her feet at 24 and a healthy future about as uncertain as a match in the wind....if this were his case and he looked in her eyes and said "no stem cell research for you" then, and only then, would he be a man of principle and conviction. until then, he remains a far right butt kissing deer in the headlights leader.
walk in my shoes george.
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thegman
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 09:09 Post subject:
| rolling rock wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | If my neighbor thinks it would be morally right to do this inorder to save a child that she has known and raised for 5 years, I cannot judge, I'd only be thankful that I didn't have to face everyday knowing that there was a way to possibly save a life of loved one and the means was legal but obtaining the tissue was not.
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welcome to my world.
i'm wondering if anyone can answer what does happen to frozen embryos after parents have decided their family is complete? i believe they are destroyed which seems to add insult to this whole issue
why can't parents stipulate what becomes of their unused frozen cells?
i'm way too personally involved here to post unsarcastically, unbitterly, unbiased...but suffice to say voting for Mr. Bush has played out to be the worst thing i have ever done in my life, for reasons i can not even begin to put into words. he is not a principled man, if he had principles and conviction, he would have been living face to face with either juvenile diabetes, parkinsons, MS, or another life threatening condition; watching a family member struggle with it 24/7/365, if it were truly in his face and personal space, if he saw it up close and personal and not from a podium, if he ever got closer than a billboard, if one of his daughters had neuropathy in her feet at 24 and a healthy future about as uncertain as a match in the wind....if this were his case and he looked in her eyes and said "no stem cell research for you" then, and only then, would he be a man of principle and conviction. until then, he remains a far right butt kissing deer in the headlights leader.
walk in my shoes george. |
The President's sister died in in 1953 of leukemia at the age of three. He was seven years old at the time.
It obviously wasn't enough to make a difference.
For me, parental perspective changes many things. So I wonder: Would his position be different if one of his daughters had been diagnosed with leukemia as a child?
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 09:53 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | | ...then we leave the door open for research to be done on human embryos and people may start aborting for that purpose... . |
I forget what exactly is in the cord that is useful to people with cancer but I have heard several times of people having a baby to get that material to save another child of theirs who is critically ill.
In the first place, I don't think people abort for science. Even if one supports abortion, it's not easy. I think people abort when they feel life would be abysmally difficult were they to have the baby, however they define that difficulty.
But in the second place, I don't see where it's different to have an additional child to get the cord material than it is to abort, you're still in complete control ("playing God") and either that's OK or it's not.
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thegman
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 10:19 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: | | ...then we leave the door open for research to be done on human embryos and people may start aborting for that purpose... . |
I forget what exactly is in the cord that is useful to people with cancer but I have heard several times of people having a baby to get that material to save another child of theirs who is critically ill. |
It's the stem cells in the cord blood, I believe.
I know two couples who have done this. It's a very interesting mindset, to be willing to do anything possible to save one's child, no matter how remote the possibility.
My wife and I didn't decide to have our daughter for insurance for our son. We did, however, bank her cord blood just in case. We don't know if she's even a match for him, and with luck, we'll never have to find out.
I doubt that cord blood banking would have crossed our minds if leukemia hadn't been part of our lives.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 11:32 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: | This is a hard subject for me. On one hand as a scientist I see the need for stem cell research. However, I feel that if we let this go through then we leave the door open for research to be done on human embryos and people may start aborting for that purpose.
Tough one. |
I am curious as to how you give thought that you are a scientist, yet disregard science when it doesn't fit your religion. But staying on topic, I agree with your post. Except that I don't see the need for research, I just think it's another way of perpetuating life. |
Mech-
I do understand what your saying, I've been in the "hey, we all have to die of something, sometime," but yet......we already perpetuate life when we do 4x heart bypass on people 60+ old, an age that was consider "old" a few generations ago.
We are talking about "life" cut way too short or a life that is plain miserable, and actually when you speak of ALS, Parkinsons, MS.....a death that is unimaginable. (much like drowning, I am told).
We've pepuated life with pig's hearts (I believe the pig had to die for it), yet a byproduct of life and yes..maybe a death that was legal in our courts, is wrong.
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Cappy
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 12:40 Post subject:
I confess that I don't know a whole lot about stem cells and the controversy surrounding there inherent use. As someone whom this subject could have quality of life implications on, I will be following the developments closely.
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