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Sahara
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 Posted: 03/17/05 - 00:38 Post subject: Treatment in Prisons
What obligation do We (the collective We) have towards those incarcerated in our prisons? Are We ethically bound to keep them clothed, fed, and safe? If not ethically, then does common decency require any such treatment? Where is the line indicating what they deserve? What say you and why?
Some comments made in the Scott Peterson thread in RR (I won't quote anything in particular but let you draw what you will from it for the discussion) as well as an article I read in today's local (see excerpt below)was the fuel for this.
http://runningforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28326
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_313860.html
| Pgh Tribune Review wrote: | Cox's department began investigating the abuse complaints in late January after receiving a report that an inmate was severely beaten by a group of prisoners. Cox admitted police did not know what to expect because abuse complaints can be commonplace in prisons.
"Then, we began to start hearing that the number of assaults was vastly disproportionate to the number of inmates," Cox said.
According to the complaints, prisoners were hazed immediately upon their arrival at the facility next to the courthouse in downtown Somerset.
"It's our understanding they could choose an option of either getting beaten with X number of whacks from a rubber shower shoe or be severely beaten by a group of inmates," Cox said.
According to Cox, being "whacked" by the rubber shoe wasn't any picnic.
"We had reports that for some of these people (who were beaten with the shoe) it was painful for them to stand, sit or even lie down. But it was even worse for the other people who refused to be beaten with the shower shoe," Cox said. |
forgive me if this topic has come up before... it's one that I mull over from time to time and am not sure if I've ever typed about it
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 01:36 Post subject:
I think this would be a great question fielded by Katzoo.
I think some guards are very honorable and try their hardest to protect the inmates. A few guards are a fine line from being inmates themselves.
The thing about it is: it's prison. Filled with some of the worst society has to offer. Regardless of why, these people are killers, rapists, drug dealers, etc. They are not very pleasant company to keep. And no matter how hard guards try, these criminals didn't follow the "rules" on the outside, what would convince them to follow the rules once they're incarcerated? What's the threat? They might go to jail? They're already there...
Incarceration makes their "caged anger" probably grow worse.
To me, jail itself isn't a deterrent--but its inhabitants are. It is not a good place to be.
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copteacher
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Location: Teaching in the Halls of Justice
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 07:48 Post subject:
the bad guys have a constitutional right to be treated with dignity and respect. The guards may know about behavior that goes on, but prisoners often tolerate it because they do not want to go into protective custody which means no contact with anyone, and isolation 23 hours a day. Some people just take their chances.
prisoners have way to much time on their hands in prison, they should be focusing on getting on with their life outside and getting educated and reformed while in.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 10:41 Post subject:
yes, food, clothing and shelter.
I have to admit, that it sometimes bugs me that we put more time and money into reforming and keeping inmates than some of our lower socioeconomic peoples that have not broken the law. If we invested those hours and money on a welfare recipient, who knows what they could become. To think that inmates can spend their lonely hours working on a college degree doesn't seem right. Take a welfare mom and provide her with childcare, make her meals, provide counselling, and take out all stressors in her life and she'd change the world!---and then lo and behold she's a huge addition to society and wouldn't even warrant follow-up care.
oh, let's be real......with court costs and probation follow-ups, make that 3 welfare moms.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 10:49 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: |
To think that inmates can spend their lonely hours working on a college degree doesn't seem right. |
If one looks at higher ed as a privilege, I can see your point. If one looks at it as a necessity to a better life, I can't see your point. We all need education. The question to me is, who exactly is paying for an inmate to go to college? If it's Mrs. Taxpayer, I'd rather that same money go to the prisoner before he's a prisoner, likely in need of some social programs, or some education, so he can stay outside and be a productive person.
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Noley
AZhat
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 11:25 Post subject:
Food, Clothing, Shelter, Place to Pee, Bread, Water. That's it.
Get rid of the educating, gym facilities, televisions, books to read...anything that we pay for that gives them any kind of fulfillment, enhancement, enrichment, enjoyment that we pay for.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 11:34 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
If one looks at higher ed as a privilege, I can see your point. If one looks at it as a necessity to a better life, I can't see your point. We all need education. The question to me is, who exactly is paying for an inmate to go to college? If it's Mrs. Taxpayer, I'd rather that same money go to the prisoner before he's a prisoner, likely in need of some social programs, or some education, so he can stay outside and be a productive person. |
I think you hit the nail on the head with this: If one looks at higher ed as a privilege. Many of us do look at it as a privilege!!
But, I agree with you wholeheartedly: let's give it to them BEFORE the issues start. Before prison. I would much rather use my tax dollars to see some youngster go to school rather than some guy who raped for kicks.
Then again, there exist some deviant people that no amount of help or nurturing or education will change.
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Noley
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 11:39 Post subject:
I want to know why our prisoners get so much more than some of our poorest, starving people/children on the streets? There are homeless and starving people who didn't perform cold, callous acts upon any person or thing. It irritates me that we are feeding these evil wrongdoers (MONSTERS) and the innocent suffer?
Food, Shelter, Clothing, Place to Pee, Bread...
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 11:49 Post subject:
| nolefan85 wrote: | I want to know why our prisoners get so much more than some of our poorest, starving people/children on the streets? There are homeless and starving people who didn't perform cold, callous acts upon any person or thing. It irritates me that we are feeding these evil wrongdoers (MONSTERS) and the innocent suffer?
Food, Shelter, Clothing, Place to Pee, Bread... |
It's an excellent point you raise. What happened to the social services that used to take care of some of the people you're worried about? Think about that as you read that another $89 billion was allocated for the war. I'm not trying to start a big brouhaha, I understand we have people on both sides of things here and I respect views that aren't the same as mine. My point is simply that it's not as though we don't have the money to do it. We (at the highest levels) simply don't have the inclination.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 12:00 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
It's an excellent point you raise. What happened to the social services that used to take care of some of the people you're worried about? Think about that as you read that another $89 billion was allocated for the war. I'm not trying to start a big brouhaha, I understand we have people on both sides of things here and I respect views that aren't the same as mine. My point is simply that it's not as though we don't have the money to do it. We (at the highest levels) simply don't have the inclination. |
Aside from the spending on the war, which is a lot, there is at least that much wasted on useless things every year.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 12:07 Post subject:
| airehead wrote: |
Aside from the spending on the war, which is a lot, there is at least that much wasted on useless things every year. |
Agreed. I used that figure b/c I happened to have just seen it and could readily reference it. We spend a lot of money on a lot of useless stuff that could be better used to help vulnerable populations before they become dangerous or incarcerated.
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Noley
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 12:40 Post subject:
Food, Clothing, Shelter, Place to Pee, Bread, Water. Maybe some toilet paper on the third Monday of every other month. That's it.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 13:16 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
Agreed. I used that figure b/c I happened to have just seen it and could readily reference it. We spend a lot of money on a lot of useless stuff that could be better used to help vulnerable populations before they become dangerous or incarcerated. |
I agree! That's what frustrates me about spending. Most of it is so "slippery" it's hard to pin down and much of that has better uses.
But, that's another thread! 
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robp
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 13:47 Post subject:
I think severity of crime should have some bearing on what amenities that prisoners can receive. The worst of the bunch, the rapists, pedophiles and murderers can rot alone in their own filth for all I care. I believe some prisoners can be rehabilitated if given an opportunity. My guess though is that the percentage of prisoners that can successfully return to civilian life and be productive is pretty low.
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copteacher
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Posted: 03/17/05 - 20:47 Post subject:
| nolefan85 wrote: | | Food, Clothing, Shelter, Place to Pee, Bread, Water. Maybe some toilet paper on the third Monday of every other month. That's it. |
sounds like your guy in Maricopia County I think who runs a tent prison camp complete with striped uniforms and bologna sandwhichs.
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