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Sahara
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 Posted: 01/12/04 - 14:03 Post subject: Training Program
I'm looking for training programs so that I can decide whether to Race a 5K on 3/27 or whether to run my first 13.1.
A little background...
I've never actually trained, just kind of got out there and run. Have been running off and on for 2.5 years. Running steady for 6 months. Last race, 2 years ago, 5K at 29:XX. I've recently been trying to increasing weekly mileage. Typical week is off/2-3/4-5/2/6-7/off/2. I've been working on the 1/2/3/2/1 ratio idea, with two off-days thrown in. Very haphazard though, as you can see. I haven't done speedwork before other than an occasional fartlek when the mood strikes me (which is infrequent).
I've printed out the novice/beginner 13.1 programs at CR and halhigdon.com.
Insight, site recommendations, advice? oh, and be nice
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coachmarkos
my boys could swim
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Posted: 01/12/04 - 14:07 Post subject: Re: Training Program
| Sahara wrote: | I'm looking for training programs so that I can decide whether to Race a 5K on 3/27 or whether to run my first 13.1.
A little background...
I've never actually trained, just kind of got out there and run. Have been running off and on for 2.5 years. Running steady for 6 months. Last race, 2 years ago, 5K at 29:XX. I've recently been trying to increasing weekly mileage. Typical week is off/2-3/4-5/2/6-7/off/2. I've been working on the 1/2/3/2/1 ratio idea, with two off-days thrown in. Very haphazard though, as you can see. I haven't done speedwork before other than an occasional fartlek when the mood strikes me (which is infrequent).
I've printed out the novice/beginner 13.1 programs at CR and halhigdon.com.
Insight, site recommendations, advice? oh, and be nice |
looks like what you are doing is pretty good sahara...
no insight...other than...Good Luck! 
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TriBob
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Posted: 01/12/04 - 14:12 Post subject:
I like Hal's programs. Don't be afraid to tweak a little if needed.
Do you use a HRM? if not get one and use it.
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kattzoo
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Posted: 01/12/04 - 14:37 Post subject:
Go for it! I love the half marathon distance! I used the Cool Running program for my first half, and enjoyed it. Others rave about Higdon, so I'd say which ever fits easiest into your life.
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Floridaboiler
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Posted: 01/13/04 - 06:19 Post subject:
It looks like you are doing okay so far. Just try and keep your runs consistent and work on picking up the miles a little bit and you should be good to go. I found that when I mapped out my entire training schedule and wrote it down (after having a running friend reveiw it) was a big help. It definitely kept me motiviated.
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posted: 01/13/04 - 07:57 Post subject:
my slightly biased opinion:
HAL HIGDON'S BEGINNER HALF MARATHON TRAINING PROGRAM.
DO IT.
i'll see ya there. 
crossing fingers and toes.
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copdotcom1
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Posted: 01/13/04 - 11:08 Post subject:
I too vote for the Hal Higdon program. His programs will prepare you for the distance but tend to be on the conservative side so that if you follow them, you shouldn't suffer any injuries.
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Cappy
Excelent
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Posted: 01/13/04 - 13:44 Post subject:
I did a self modified version of Higdon's marathon plan, and it got me through mine. His book was a lot of help too
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elkid
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Posted: 01/13/04 - 14:06 Post subject:
Definitely doable. Check your PM inbox.
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jrjo
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Posted: 01/13/04 - 16:13 Post subject:
I like the look of your ratio plan there Sahara, but I would tweak it some just to be sure you're getting a hard/easy rotation. I often recommend a 3/1/2/1/2/1 series. And as long as you keep those 30% & 20% days surrounded by off days or 10% days, shuffling is easy enough. Often I run a 3/1/1/2/1/2/0 week, for instance. You need the recovery to be up for the next larger mileage and I'm afraid if you go with a 2/3/2 in the middle of your week, it's too much at once.
Getting to 13.1 miles doesn't need to be rocket science. How I'd go about it would be to just start from where you're at now, work out the 3/1/2/1/2/1 set of runs for your week. So if you're at 20 miles now, that would be runs of 6/2/4/2/4/2/0 for seven days. Then creep up the mileage to the middle of March incrementally each week so you make it to a 40 mile week. So say, two weeks out from your race, you'd be logging a week of 12/4/8/4/8/4/0 and then a taper week prior to the race with mileages of half that. You can work the weeks backwards from there with weeks of say 38, 35, 33, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22 & 20. It might be a quick progression since your timeline is a little tight, so you won't have much for step-back weeks or chances to take a week too easy.
And one final tidbit of advice..take only one bite at a time. If you're looking to increase your mileage, don't also mix in more speedwork. Getting your endurance to the halfM distance needs to be priority right now. Then when you have a timeline to keep your mileage consistent for awhile, you can add the speedwork training and not go at it with dead legs that are working on adapting to bigger miles. 
Hope that helps! 
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Phar lap
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Posted: 01/14/04 - 03:14 Post subject: Re: Training Program
| Sahara wrote: | I'm looking for training programs so that I can decide whether to Race a 5K on 3/27 or whether to run my first 13.1.
A little background...
I've never actually trained, just kind of got out there and run. Have been running off and on for 2.5 years. Running steady for 6 months. Last race, 2 years ago, 5K at 29:XX. I've recently been trying to increasing weekly mileage. Typical week is off/2-3/4-5/2/6-7/off/2. I've been working on the 1/2/3/2/1 ratio idea, with two off-days thrown in. Very haphazard though, as you can see. I haven't done speedwork before other than an occasional fartlek when the mood strikes me (which is infrequent).
I've printed out the novice/beginner 13.1 programs at CR and halhigdon.com.
Insight, site recommendations, advice? oh, and be nice |
What is this northen hemisphere obsession with running long distance?
I know most of you are self coached but if you really want to RUN a half or a full marathon as opposed to just surviving a distance run and staggering over the line, (not a pretty sight) I really suggest you do your apprenticeship and work on running form. (can go into this further if you want)
Surely you you should be trying to improve you 5km. time before you step up to the longer distance.
Your best 5km. time is 29mins, lets say 30mins. Thats 6min km. pace, so provided you hold that pace all the way over the 21km. (rough est.) That comes out at 2hours 6mins. A long time to be on your feet and cover the 13 miles.
PLEASE don't anyone think I'm decrying the effort of anyone who runs over the 2 or 2 and a half or even 3 hour mark. Far from it; in fact I'm full of admiration for those that guts it out for so long, we all have different abillities, some of us will never be quick, but annoys the tripe out of me when I see people with potential just JOGGING along, just intent on finishing, when they could be RUNNING.
Now that I've got that of my chest, I haven't really answered your origional question but hopefully I've given you something to think about.
jrjo, speaks a lot of sense, and I'm happy to go along with what he says about the 1/2 running program you have selected.
That's a big statement from me because I don't like running programs at all (to inflexible)
Why not run the suggested 1/2 program (you will benefit from the extra miles/kms.) but run a few 5 and 10kms this year. There will always be another 1/2 next year.
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copdotcom1
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Posted: 01/14/04 - 15:56 Post subject: Re: Training Program
| Sahara wrote: | I'm looking for training programs so that I can decide whether to Race a 5K on 3/27 or whether to run my first 13.1.
A little background...
I've never actually trained, just kind of got out there and run. Have been running off and on for 2.5 years. Running steady for 6 months. Last race, 2 years ago, 5K at 29:XX. I've recently been trying to increasing weekly mileage. Typical week is off/2-3/4-5/2/6-7/off/2. I've been working on the 1/2/3/2/1 ratio idea, with two off-days thrown in. Very haphazard though, as you can see. I haven't done speedwork before other than an occasional fartlek when the mood strikes me (which is infrequent).
I've printed out the novice/beginner 13.1 programs at CR and halhigdon.com.
Insight, site recommendations, advice? oh, and be nice |
So what did you decide on? 5K or half? Inquiring minds wanna know. 
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Sahara
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Posted: 01/14/04 - 16:25 Post subject: Re: Training Program
It's decided. I will do the half in March. I appreciate the advice and encouragement; thank you!
| TriBob wrote: | | Do you use a HRM? if not get one and use it. |
I don't use one. I feel like too much of a beginner to need one. And frankly, it's likely not in my budget.
| Floridaboiler wrote: | | I found that when I mapped out my entire training schedule and wrote it down (after having a running friend reveiw it) was a big help. It definitely kept me motiviated. |
That's my plan for this weekend. It will seem very official at that point and I'll work towards being true to the plan.
| jrjo wrote: | | You can work the weeks backwards from there with weeks of say 38, 35, 33, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22 & 20. It might be a quick progression since your timeline is a little tight, so you won't have much for step-back weeks or chances to take a week too easy. |
Those weekly numbers intimidate the crap out of me. The ratio thing came from you, as if you couldn't tell. I remember you giving advice at some point last year and it makes sense. I think of it as the "tough" plan; Higdon's as the easy. As mentioned above, I'm going to map out the next 10.5 weeks and come up with a plan.
| jrjo wrote: |
And one final tidbit of advice..take only one bite at a time. If you're looking to increase your mileage, don't also mix in more speedwork. Getting your endurance to the halfM distance needs to be priority right now. Hope that helps! |
I so very much agree with you. That's why CR's plan won't work for me if I do the half. It has speed work built in that I know is not for me as I go for the distance goal.
| Phar lap wrote: |
What is this northen hemisphere obsession with running long distance?I know most of you are self coached but if you really want to RUN a half or a full marathon as opposed to just surviving a distance run and staggering over the line, (not a pretty sight) I really suggest you do your apprenticeship and work on running form. (can go into this further if you want)
Surely you you should be trying to improve you 5km. time before you step up to the longer distance. |
I believe it's about setting goals and about semantics. My initial goal for the winter was to increase my base. I'm doing that. Two goals for the year were to learn to race, as in run fast, and to run further, as in a half. (Not at the same time, mind you <see above>) I'm not looking to just survive a half, but to run (in MY sense of the word, which it seems is not your sense). Apparently your "run" = my "race", My run = well, going slow and long. By all means, feel free to continue to vent to me about the N.A. running mentality in the future. I don't at all take it personally but caution that it has potential of being a off-putting for newbies in the Starting Line.
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copdotcom1
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Posted: 01/14/04 - 16:44 Post subject:
Good luck to you Sahara...sounds like you have a good plan and a well thought out goal! Have you already picked the half you are going to run? Hope you will keep us updated on your training. I for one am always excited to hear about someone attempting their first half or marathon.
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Phar lap
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Posted: 01/16/04 - 23:11 Post subject: Re: Training Program
| Sahara wrote: | It's decided. I will do the half in March. I appreciate the advice and encouragement; thank you!
| TriBob wrote: | | Do you use a HRM? if not get one and use it. |
I don't use one. I feel like too much of a beginner to need one. And frankly, it's likely not in my budget.
| Floridaboiler wrote: | | I found that when I mapped out my entire training schedule and wrote it down (after having a running friend reveiw it) was a big help. It definitely kept me motiviated. |
That's my plan for this weekend. It will seem very official at that point and I'll work towards being true to the plan.
| jrjo wrote: | | You can work the weeks backwards from there with weeks of say 38, 35, 33, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22 & 20. It might be a quick progression since your timeline is a little tight, so you won't have much for step-back weeks or chances to take a week too easy. |
Those weekly numbers intimidate the crap out of me. The ratio thing came from you, as if you couldn't tell. I remember you giving advice at some point last year and it makes sense. I think of it as the "tough" plan; Higdon's as the easy. As mentioned above, I'm going to map out the next 10.5 weeks and come up with a plan.
| jrjo wrote: |
And one final tidbit of advice..take only one bite at a time. If you're looking to increase your mileage, don't also mix in more speedwork. Getting your endurance to the halfM distance needs to be priority right now. Hope that helps! |
I so very much agree with you. That's why CR's plan won't work for me if I do the half. It has speed work built in that I know is not for me as I go for the distance goal.
| Phar lap wrote: |
What is this northen hemisphere obsession with running long distance?I know most of you are self coached but if you really want to RUN a half or a full marathon as opposed to just surviving a distance run and staggering over the line, (not a pretty sight) I really suggest you do your apprenticeship and work on running form. (can go into this further if you want)
Surely you you should be trying to improve you 5km. time before you step up to the longer distance. |
I believe it's about setting goals and about semantics. My initial goal for the winter was to increase my base. I'm doing that. Two goals for the year were to learn to race, as in run fast, and to run further, as in a half. (Not at the same time, mind you <see above>) I'm not looking to just survive a half, but to run (in MY sense of the word, which it seems is not your sense). Apparently your "run" = my "race", My run = well, going slow and long. By all means, feel free to continue to vent to me about the N.A. running mentality in the future. I don't at all take it personally but caution that it has potential of being a off-putting for newbies in the Starting Line. |
I believe in setting goals too, developing and improving but in a logical sequence and with sensible progression.
Perhaps you may like to read my original reply again, but this time more carefully. You did ask for "insight information and advice" I took the time to reply and hopefully be of some help, you or others don't have to agree. But isn't that what Running Forums is all about, a sharing of ideas, training and information?
If you think you have struck a raw nerve with me, your right on the button. What I find particulary offensive about your reply is that I might be "off- putting" to new runners. I have been involved working part-time in all aspects of athletics (running, race organising, promotion, handicaping etc.) for over 35 years, the last 12 years as a registed coach, so my comments are coming from a reasonable background.
The thing is, I coach runners of all abilities, from State grade to those who COULDN'T RUN YOUR 29 mins. in a blue fit. I don't, and never have made distinctions, we are all runners and everyone is welcome in my group, but the common goal is they all try to improve times reletive to their ability and then progressevely move up in distance Thats what I was trying to get across to you.
I DO take you reply personally, I know of no other time where I have been "off-putting" especially to runners new and old, but then I've got broard shoulders and I'll get over it.
My comment on what I call the running distance obsession in North America was NOT directed at you personally but the running community in general. The last time I checked the rankings, no US. or Canadian men in the top 50. Deena Drossin a lonely 6th. in the womens.
Why in a country with the population you have and probally the best training facilities in the world?
I know we are not in the same league but I'll lay good money Deena didn't go from running 5kms. and straight into half marathons.
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