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The Measurement Syndrome


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Phar lap
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PostPosted: 04/10/05 - 01:12    Post subject: The Measurement Syndrome
People new to running are constantly accosted mainly in magazines to purchase or use the latest measurement device for training. Not just sophisticated watches, but computerised electronic pacers, heart rate monitors, weight equipment, skin fold callipers etc. (dare I say MP3's with motivational music?)
It is not for me to decry all these things. However, I wonder if running, distance running in particular really needs such exact gadgetry.
I see it as complicating a basically simple sport and psyching people out.
They love running and are told by the latest 'glossy magazine, running pop guru scientist' their pecentage of fast twitch fibres means they should be a sprinter.
Used sensibly within the broader training framework of a good coach/runner relationship the above MIGHT be of assistance.

What prompted me to write this was back in the 70's the British runner, Brendan Foster was invited to do extensive laboratory tests over a two day period in the UK. As the story goes, at the finish he asked: "Well what have you found out about me?"
"Brendan you have the physiological make-up to be a world class distance runner." He was astounded, he told them of his world records and Olympic and Commonwealth medals. To which the reply was , "But now you know you are a world class runner"

I suppose it comes down to your own judgement on what you respond to or do not respond to should be of prime importance.
TOsteve
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PostPosted: 04/10/05 - 07:45    Post subject:
The problem with magazines is that they are always trying to sell you things. I just started subscribing to Runner's World this year and have been a little annoyed that it seems like they are more concerned with selling things than giving sound advise. A couple of months ago they did an article on MP3 players. I couldn't believe they were promoting running on the street while wearing headphones (sorry you MP3 player fans). Not only is the distraction dangerous but there is a lot of evidence that people are having their hearing damaged by these things, even listening at moderate volume levels. To me the whole article seemed a little irresponsible on their part.

That being said, I just recently bought a Garmin speed and distance meter and it has been a better addition to my training routine than I could have possibly imagined. After only a few weeks I've made huge improvements at controlling my pacing and its opened up infinite running routes as I'm no longer restricted to running on paths where I've measured the distance.

I guess we just have to learn to be smarter consumers.
TimRuns
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PostPosted: 04/11/05 - 00:02    Post subject:
It's important to remember that alot of these gadgets such as Garmins and HRMs are only training tools and not substitutes/necessities for training. They are useful only if you know how to and why you use them. For example, I'm a regular HRM user and I find it useful in helping me gauge intensity on my workouts and recovery runs (i.e. when to go fast, when to slow down). If you have no clue why you are using them for, then you're simply wasting money.
Pug
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PostPosted: 04/11/05 - 08:31    Post subject:
I could see a use for a Garmin in finding out what my pace is as I'm running and also to get an accurate account of how far I ran. But all I really want to know is how far I ran and how fast.
MechEngDropout
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PostPosted: 04/11/05 - 08:33    Post subject:
I'm obsessed with stats and numbers. That's the primary reason I don't get a gps or hrm. I'd put too much weight on it and probably not enjoy running as much. I start to hate even the watch, but it's so hard to get rid of it. I may scratch the log all together and just run without anything for a few months.
cherylpf
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PostPosted: 04/11/05 - 10:25    Post subject:
TOsteve wrote:
The problem with magazines is that they are always trying to sell you things. I just started subscribing to Runner's World this year and have been a little annoyed that it seems like they are more concerned with selling things than giving sound advise. A couple of months ago they did an article on MP3 players. I couldn't believe they were promoting running on the street while wearing headphones (sorry you MP3 player fans). Not only is the distraction dangerous but there is a lot of evidence that people are having their hearing damaged by these things, even listening at moderate volume levels. To me the whole article seemed a little irresponsible on their part.

huge
I talked about this a little here http://runningforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27816
Quote:
That being said, I just recently bought a Garmin speed and distance meter and it has been a better addition to my training routine than I could have possibly imagined. After only a few weeks I've made huge improvements at controlling my pacing and its opened up infinite running routes as I'm no longer restricted to running on paths where I've measured the distance.

I guess we just have to learn to be smarter consumers.

and yet, I love my garmin, its been a great training tool
MM
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PostPosted: 04/12/05 - 12:42    Post subject:
I agree with much of what's been posted here. Running is a simple sport, and those who try to "tech it up" usually end up messing it up. I don't own, or aspire to own, a heart rate monitor, GPS, MP3 player, or any of that. When I run, I head out the door in whatever level of clothing is neccessary, a watch, and shoes. Nothing else.

A paradox of running is that while it is a simple sport, you will never know everything about it, or about yourself. It's a constant learning process. One of the reasons I'm anti-technology in running is that it deprives you of a valueable learning process: listening to your body. Instead, it teaches you to rely on a number on a heartrate monitor or a distance on a GPS. Listening to your body means far more that just "I'm hurting today" or "I feel great today." It means looking through temporal pain or pleasure to see what it's really telling you. That's something that takes years of experience, and, after 14 years of running, I'm still learning.

As for Runners World, its shoe and gear reviews are nothing more than advertisements in article form.
spongebob
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PostPosted: 04/13/05 - 17:44    Post subject:
I do like my GPS to get a measurement of a course that I'll train on a lot.

Once I get a course mapped out, then I leave it behind.

I'm a bad estimator. So knowing the exact distance of my training routes is a good thing.

For example, I have two friends that are much faster than I'll ever be. They tell me about their 4:45 miles on training runs. The problem is, when I run their course with my GPS, I have them running 6.5 miles instead of the 8 they thought they were putting in. And they get frustrated because they can't hit 4:45 pace in a race.

I got a HRM as a gift, but I never use it. I love my MP3 on days I have to run on a treadmill. But I like to run 99% of my runs outside with as little stuff as possible.

I'm also a purist in that I think training schedules shouldn't be so complicated. I know to do a long run and do 2 speed workouts (1 for longer distances, 1 for shorter) each week. I just execute my plan by running hard. I don't worry about my HRM and VO2 max. If I feel like poo after a track workout, I probably did myself some good. If I can carry out a conversation halfway through 12x400s, then I'm probably dogging it. But all the books and programs out there are very detailed and overly complicated. At some point people need to realize that running is very simple.

I saw a huge improvement in speed when I kept the same training plan, but went from 35 to 50 mpw. Who would have thought that? Very Happy
robp
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PostPosted: 04/14/05 - 06:57    Post subject:
Runner X wrote:
I do like my GPS to get a measurement of a course that I'll train on a lot.

Once I get a course mapped out, then I leave it behind.

I'm a bad estimator. So knowing the exact distance of my training routes is a good thing.

For example, I have two friends that are much faster than I'll ever be. They tell me about their 4:45 miles on training runs. The problem is, when I run their course with my GPS, I have them running 6.5 miles instead of the 8 they thought they were putting in. And they get frustrated because they can't hit 4:45 pace in a race.

I got a HRM as a gift, but I never use it. I love my MP3 on days I have to run on a treadmill. But I like to run 99% of my runs outside with as little stuff as possible.

I'm also a purist in that I think training schedules shouldn't be so complicated. I know to do a long run and do 2 speed workouts (1 for longer distances, 1 for shorter) each week. I just execute my plan by running hard. I don't worry about my HRM and VO2 max. If I feel like poo after a track workout, I probably did myself some good. If I can carry out a conversation halfway through 12x400s, then I'm probably dogging it. But all the books and programs out there are very detailed and overly complicated. At some point people need to realize that running is very simple.

I saw a huge improvement in speed when I kept the same training plan, but went from 35 to 50 mpw. Who would have thought that? Very Happy


This is exactly what I was gonna say exact I don't even take my Garmin with to check distances. I drive them.
spongebob
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PostPosted: 04/14/05 - 09:38    Post subject:
robp wrote:


This is exactly what I was gonna say exact I don't even take my Garmin with to check distances. I drive them.


In your POS truck? No wonder you run so many miles!
tdassow
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PostPosted: 04/15/05 - 03:14    Post subject:
My wife makes fun of me because of my need to record and calculate. I too have a Garmin and HRM, but I am not a slave to them. I only use my Garmin for interval training or to try new routes. My HRM was necessary because I did not know how to run when I started. Now I use it to help get the objective "feel" for training, for example, how bad is it when you get 4 hours of sleep the night before, etc.

I run with an MP3, but I'll freely admit it's my weak mind that requires it. I need the distraction, I wish I didn't, but I do. Perhaps I'll wean myself....

These and a good pair of running shoes and all I need. I'll spend no money on fashionable running clothes, just the cheap stuff. (Except for maybe socks.)
marathonrnr262
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PostPosted: 04/20/05 - 11:42    Post subject:
I use my HRM for my riding, but not for my running. While traiing for IM distance races, the objective is to stay within a lower HR and save yourself for the marathon. If your stuck in a high HR, you will not survive the whole days workout.

I use my Garmin for miles tracking and not much else. If I have mapped the course and know the distance, then I leave it home. If I think I might detour and go another route, I'll take it just for giggles.

I do not keep a training log.

Sheldon
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PostPosted: 04/20/05 - 13:10    Post subject:
I use my HRM primarily for making sure my hard days are hard enough and my easy days are easy enough. The more experienced I become as a runner, though, the more I notice I could get pretty close to the appropriate exertion rate by feel alone. I'm sure that before long, I really won't need it that much.

Other than that, I just need a stopwatch. No gps, no music.
prohemp
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PostPosted: 04/22/05 - 11:31    Post subject:
robp wrote:


This is exactly what I was gonna say exact I don't even take my Garmin with to check distances. I drive them.


That's me - I'll start out at the end of my driveway and run. Later when I get the chance i'll trace my route (if I remember) in my car to see the mileage.
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