 
|
|
|
|
|
|
kristin31
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8045
Location: Caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom
|
| Back to top
|
|
 Posted: 10/07/05 - 15:08 Post subject:
In some parts of Europe, yes.
And it's not so repugnant to pay for something worthwhile, but when it's nearly impossible to get a decent job/career without a college education, AND tuition rates are so high that you need to go into debt to obtain something that is almost necessary to get a decent job, the system is unfairly slanted against the middle class and the poor.
|
|
|
|
|
MechEngDropout
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 10474
Location: Off the grid
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 15:17 Post subject:
| kristin31 wrote: | In some parts of Europe, yes.
And it's not so repugnant to pay for something worthwhile, but when it's nearly impossible to get a decent job/career without a college education, AND tuition rates are so high that you need to go into debt to obtain something that is almost necessary to get a decent job, the system is unfairly slanted against the middle class and the poor. |
WRONG. If you go to a state university, there is no reason why you cannot put yourself through college with a job at the Circle K. I personally know several people who have put themselves through college with low wage jobs. It make take you longer, as every semester you may not be able to afford but 9 hours of classes, but it can be done. Obviously you can't do it (as easily) if you have an expense such as a child (though I know one person with a child who is in my classes), but that is just one choice you have to make in life.
|
|
|
|
|
kristin31
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8045
Location: Caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 15:53 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | kristin31 wrote: | In some parts of Europe, yes.
And it's not so repugnant to pay for something worthwhile, but when it's nearly impossible to get a decent job/career without a college education, AND tuition rates are so high that you need to go into debt to obtain something that is almost necessary to get a decent job, the system is unfairly slanted against the middle class and the poor. |
WRONG. If you go to a state university, there is no reason why you cannot put yourself through college with a job at the Circle K. I personally know several people who have put themselves through college with low wage jobs. It make take you longer, as every semester you may not be able to afford but 9 hours of classes, but it can be done. Obviously you can't do it (as easily) if you have an expense such as a child (though I know one person with a child who is in my classes), but that is just one choice you have to make in life. |
It is possible, but difficult. I did the same sort of thing, but still had to take out some loans.
What sucked for me, and maybe I need therapy, was that I got into a few really good schools, including Northwestern, that I really wanted to attend but since my family was middle class (not wealthy, not poor enough for me to qualify for a grant, and it was the 80's, the student loans were even difficult to obtain. Now the loans are more readily available, but why shouldn't people be able to attend the college of their choice, provided they meet the standards and so the work?
Wasn't there once talk of opening a free online university several years ago? I remember reading about a gentleman who wanted to start something with his own donations (he was obviously wealthy). I don't know what became of that.
|
|
|
|
|
cherylpf
crazy cat lady
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 17305
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 16:22 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | kristin31 wrote: | In some parts of Europe, yes.
And it's not so repugnant to pay for something worthwhile, but when it's nearly impossible to get a decent job/career without a college education, AND tuition rates are so high that you need to go into debt to obtain something that is almost necessary to get a decent job, the system is unfairly slanted against the middle class and the poor. |
WRONG. If you go to a state university, there is no reason why you cannot put yourself through college with a job at the Circle K. I personally know several people who have put themselves through college with low wage jobs. It make take you longer, as every semester you may not be able to afford but 9 hours of classes, but it can be done. Obviously you can't do it (as easily) if you have an expense such as a child (though I know one person with a child who is in my classes), but that is just one choice you have to make in life. |
I disagree with that thinking. First I think we might have different views on the cost of school. But I believe the opportunity cost of the missing out on the job a college degree could earn you be FAR greater than making ends meet for 5, 6, 8 years at the Circle K. Not to mention I believe you start to lose a competitive job edge when your resume says you took 8 years for a BS. Not to mention that the rates loans go for vs. the salary you could potentially make...it just makes sense to take the loans, earn the scholarship, whatever, but focus as much as you can on school, work if you can (I did work through school) but ultimately the degree and the experience it eventually affords you, not the Circle K experience or tiny paycheck, is more valuable.
And just to recap, Louisiana pays for you and any high school grad who makes a 21 on the ACT to go to school? Taxpayer money? Thats pretty unbelievable. Great for you for taking advantage of that, but I can't believe such a great offer is avialable.
|
|
|
|
|
airehead
Oompa Loofah
|
|
|
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 18788
Location: Between here and eternity...
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 17:56 Post subject:
| kristin31 wrote: | | cherylpf wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | Good luck with that. I refuse to go into debt for school. |
You are very lucky you don't have to.
Tim, thats low! I'm not even going to talk numbers, but....well just thats low. You'll get it paid quick. |
Double 
Mine are awful. They are getting better, however. I borrowed as little as possible, but my ex absconded with some of the money, was supposed to pay part of it per divorce agreement, and of course never did, which I did not find out about until about 6 months ago.
It sucks having to borrow money to go to college. Higher education should be free. |
I don't think it should be free necessarily, but neither should cons sitting in prison get it for free, either.
On a one income household, I refuse to gather debt--so paying for school is not really easy. Yet a criminal in jail can get free school?
God willing, we are going to pay for Aire Jr's school--but there are stipulations--no flunking.
|
|
|
|
|
purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 18:07 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | When all is said and done, my loans will be in six-digit land. |
Is it worth it? That's a lot of money.
|
|
|
|
|
marathonrnr262
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 1885
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 18:24 Post subject:
I made my LAST payment on my student loans last month. It felt like this huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders.
I paid $515 for 4 years to repay my loans. Now I can start to enjoy my income, finally.
Good luck with yours.
Do you know that about 3 years ago they changed the law so that claiming bankruptcy would not remove student loans.
Sheldon
|
|
|
|
|
kristin31
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8045
Location: Caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 20:04 Post subject:
| marathonrnr262 wrote: | I made my LAST payment on my student loans last month. It felt like this huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders.
I paid $515 for 4 years to repay my loans. Now I can start to enjoy my income, finally.
Good luck with yours.
Do you know that about 3 years ago they changed the law so that claiming bankruptcy would not remove student loans.
Sheldon |
In Ohio, it was even longer than three years. But I think it is a federal law, so I am not sure. At one point, I was so desperate paying off loans/messy divorce that I looked into this option, and chose no. That was 1998 - 2001.
My sister has law school/undergrad loans that monthly, total a mortgage payment easily. So she is miserable, trapped in a 70 - 80 hr a week job to pay them off and live reasonably.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there has to be some other solution to this. If someone really wants a decent college education without the debt and ramifications of thousands of $$ in debt, there should be more grants and scholarships available for students at a middle income level. The current system allows for the very rich or the very poor to go to college with no debt. That's not most of this country.
If something is required to obtain a decent job, shouldn't it be affordable or free to everyone? Otherwise, we are eventually going to eliminate the middle class.
|
|
|
|
|
Cappy
Excelent
|
|
|
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 21:11 Post subject:
Still having a way's to go on my student loans, is keeping me from going back for my MBA,
and what really bugs me about the cost of higher education is that a lot of the colleges are sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars in endowment money and other investments, and they still charge astronomical tuition.
|
|
|
|
|
kristin31
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8045
Location: Caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/07/05 - 22:16 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: | Still having a way's to go on my student loans, is keeping me from going back for my MBA,
and what really bugs me about the cost of higher education is that a lot of the colleges are sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars in endowment money and other investments, and they still charge astronomical tuition. |
This is exactly what I am talking about. Why shouldn't you be able to go back and get that degree, without going into massive amounts of debt. You are a (at least from my impressions of you here) mature, responsible adult who wants to further their career. Why should you have to mortgage your life away to get ahead?
|
|
|
|
|
MechEngDropout
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 10474
Location: Off the grid
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/08/05 - 00:55 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | kristin31 wrote: | In some parts of Europe, yes.
And it's not so repugnant to pay for something worthwhile, but when it's nearly impossible to get a decent job/career without a college education, AND tuition rates are so high that you need to go into debt to obtain something that is almost necessary to get a decent job, the system is unfairly slanted against the middle class and the poor. |
WRONG. If you go to a state university, there is no reason why you cannot put yourself through college with a job at the Circle K. I personally know several people who have put themselves through college with low wage jobs. It make take you longer, as every semester you may not be able to afford but 9 hours of classes, but it can be done. Obviously you can't do it (as easily) if you have an expense such as a child (though I know one person with a child who is in my classes), but that is just one choice you have to make in life. |
I disagree with that thinking. First I think we might have different views on the cost of school. But I believe the opportunity cost of the missing out on the job a college degree could earn you be FAR greater than making ends meet for 5, 6, 8 years at the Circle K. Not to mention I believe you start to lose a competitive job edge when your resume says you took 8 years for a BS. Not to mention that the rates loans go for vs. the salary you could potentially make...it just makes sense to take the loans, earn the scholarship, whatever, but focus as much as you can on school, work if you can (I did work through school) but ultimately the degree and the experience it eventually affords you, not the Circle K experience or tiny paycheck, is more valuable. |
While I agree with everything you say, it isn't the point I was making. I said it was not necessary to go into debt for a college education. That's all.
| Quote: |
And just to recap, Louisiana pays for you and any high school grad who makes a 21 on the ACT to go to school? Taxpayer money? Thats pretty unbelievable. Great for you for taking advantage of that, but I can't believe such a great offer is avialable. |
Yes. In state tuition to a state university. If you go to a private university or college, the same tuition amount is applied and you make up the rest. The basic TOPS covers just tuition, which is around 1800 a semester. If you have a 24 on the ACT, you get a stipend of 400 a semester, and if you get a 27 on the ACT, you get a stipend of 800 each semester. It's good for 4 years, or 8 semesters. You have to maintain a certain GPA while in college, or you lose the scholarship.
|
|
|
|
|
TOsteve
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Out for a run
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/08/05 - 08:26 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | The standards are extremely lax; many people drop out after one or two semesters - they never had the intention of going to college, but since it was free they decided to go and party until they flunked out. When you make it free for all, more and more people will do this - the abuse outweighs the benefit in my opinion. |
Right now three things are required to be successful at the best institutions for higher education in our countries:
1. academic proficiency
2. ambition/drive/character (whatever you want to call it)
3. a dumptruck full of cash (smaller dumptrucks for Canadian $$)
There is little society can do to provide anyone with items 1 and 2. Those are up to the individual and maybe a little bit of genetics. There are people out there with the academic ability and the drive to be successful at Harvard or MIT. Without the economic means they have to go into huge amounts of debt or maybe the financial obstacle seems so vast that they don't believe top schools are even an option. Wouldn't the most socially responsible thing to do be to work toward an education system that does not discriminate against people lacking item 3 and uses only items number 1 and 2 as admission criteria?
|
|
|
|
|
Cappy
Excelent
|
|
|
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/08/05 - 09:02 Post subject:
| TOsteve wrote: | | Wouldn't the most socially responsible thing to do be to work toward an education system that does not discriminate against people lacking item 3 and uses only items number 1 and 2 as admission criteria? |
Yes it would
|
|
|
|
|
MechEngDropout
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 10474
Location: Off the grid
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/08/05 - 09:18 Post subject:
| TOsteve wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | The standards are extremely lax; many people drop out after one or two semesters - they never had the intention of going to college, but since it was free they decided to go and party until they flunked out. When you make it free for all, more and more people will do this - the abuse outweighs the benefit in my opinion. |
Right now three things are required to be successful at the best institutions for higher education in our countries:
1. academic proficiency
2. ambition/drive/character (whatever you want to call it)
3. a dumptruck full of cash (smaller dumptrucks for Canadian $$)
There is little society can do to provide anyone with items 1 and 2. Those are up to the individual and maybe a little bit of genetics. There are people out there with the academic ability and the drive to be successful at Harvard or MIT. Without the economic means they have to go into huge amounts of debt or maybe the financial obstacle seems so vast that they don't believe top schools are even an option. Wouldn't the most socially responsible thing to do be to work toward an education system that does not discriminate against people lacking item 3 and uses only items number 1 and 2 as admission criteria? |
I have no problems with scholarships for a small percentage of the population who proves that they have the academic proficiency and ambition. There are already a good bit out there, especially at schools like MIT. But you can't expect the institution to dole out all many more scholarships - they wouldn't survive. So unless citizens and corporations step up with scholarship funds, all that is left is the government. And you'll have a really hard time convincing me that the government should pay 25k a semester for one person to attend a good school instead of 5k a semester for five people to five pretty good schools.
|
|
|
|
|
cherylpf
crazy cat lady
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 17305
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 10/08/05 - 10:27 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | Yes. In state tuition to a state university. If you go to a private university or college, the same tuition amount is applied and you make up the rest. The basic TOPS covers just tuition, which is around 1800 a semester. If you have a 24 on the ACT, you get a stipend of 400 a semester, and if you get a 27 on the ACT, you get a stipend of 800 each semester. It's good for 4 years, or 8 semesters. You have to maintain a certain GPA while in college, or you lose the scholarship. |
Freaking awesome. I wish I had that available...I got a 27 back in the day.
|
|
|
|
| |
All times are GMT - 4 Hours
|
|
|
