Speaking of Constitutional Amendments
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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 Posted: 06/08/06 - 12:56 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: | | Capt Kirk wrote: |
I got a better idea: REFORM THE TAX CODE!!!!!
Flat Tax (or no Income Tax) with a National Sales Tax
No marriage penalty
No Estate / Death Taxes
No Alternative Minimum Tax
etc, etc, etc |
That solves only part of the problem. What about power of attorney, rights of survivorship, custody of children, hopsital visitation, funeral arrangements, insurance, and spousal benefits (if offered by employers) ? |
If what you say is true, and marriage is essentially just "a contract", then what's to stop a gay couple from creating their own set of "contracts" regarding power of attorney, rights of survivorship, funerals, etc.? I don't get why this isn't/can't be done. As a business major I took my fair share of contract law studies in college, and people can draw up contracts for any/everything. Sure, recognizing gay-marriage would "automatically" make many of these things happen by default, but a gay couple can RIGHT NOW draw up paperwork and create legal documents for all these situations. Contractual law is powerful stuff, I don't get why it is used to establish priority in all these circumstances (children/custody might be a different matter, but of course, biologically a gay couple wouldn't have their own children anyway, so the other parent would always be in the picture and that couldn't be contracted out which makes sense). |
Why should anyone get married? Why don't heterosexual couples do the same, draw up contracts or the other things you've suggested? |
I would guess because a "marriage license" short cuts making contracts with another person and so many laws have "spouse" already in place so marriage is a whole lot easier than creating contracts. Which doesn't negate my point that two same sex people can create contracts. They don't have to create a contract to recognize a "spouse", but people in this country can designate beneficiaries, power of attorney, trustees, living will executors and the whole gambit of typical "spousal" roles without having to have a "wedding". Yes, I understand that recognizing gay marriage would make it a whole lot easier, but that still doesn't change the fact that any adult can create a contract and 'grant' someone else a boatload of 'rights' to all kinds of situations, man, woman, whatever. 
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16451
Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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Posted: 06/08/06 - 13:15 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | 5 pages now, and has anyone answered how it affects any of you if keltic were allowed to marry his partner? You must have some sort of reason as to why it would be the downfall of society. |
I think I already said this forum is wholly inadequate/incapable of being used to discuss religious beliefs and that's where/how it "affects" me.
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camelia bedelia
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Location: God's Country
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Posted: 06/08/06 - 13:58 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | 5 pages now, and has anyone answered how it affects any of you if keltic were allowed to marry his partner? You must have some sort of reason as to why it would be the downfall of society. |
I think I already said this forum is wholly inadequate/incapable of being used to discuss religious beliefs and that's where/how it "affects" me. |
So it's everyone else problem because they can't understand and never yours because you can't clearly articulate your beliefs or because people simply don't agree with you?
Last edited by camelia bedelia on 06/08/06 - 14:03; edited 1 time in total
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Joined: 26 Jul 2002
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Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
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Posted: 06/08/06 - 14:02 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | 5 pages now, and has anyone answered how it affects any of you if keltic were allowed to marry his partner? You must have some sort of reason as to why it would be the downfall of society. |
I think I already said this forum is wholly inadequate/incapable of being used to discuss religious beliefs and that's where/how it "affects" me. |
So it's everyone else problem because they can't understand you and not yours because you can't articulate a reply? |
You sure jump to some odd conclusions.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 06/08/06 - 15:10 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | 5 pages now, and has anyone answered how it affects any of you if keltic were allowed to marry his partner? You must have some sort of reason as to why it would be the downfall of society. |
I think I already said this forum is wholly inadequate/incapable of being used to discuss religious beliefs and that's where/how it "affects" me. |
So it's everyone else problem because they can't understand you and not yours because you can't articulate a reply? |
You sure jump to some odd conclusions. |
He presents an arguement (gay marriage will affect him personally because of his personal beliefs) and then won't support that arguement because we are "inadequate/incapable" of discussing it. I don't think I'm jumping to any conclusions at all.
The fact is, a person may not like the idea of two men getting married, and they may not see it as a valid mariage, but it isn't going to affect them personally. Their marriage won't weaken because of it, it won't be less legal, they won't lose any of the benefits of their own marriage. We're at 6 pages now, and no one has been able to explain how gay marriage lesses hetero marriage. Why? Because it doesn't.
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
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Posted: 06/08/06 - 15:40 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | robp wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | 5 pages now, and has anyone answered how it affects any of you if keltic were allowed to marry his partner? You must have some sort of reason as to why it would be the downfall of society. |
I think I already said this forum is wholly inadequate/incapable of being used to discuss religious beliefs and that's where/how it "affects" me. |
So it's everyone else problem because they can't understand you and not yours because you can't articulate a reply? |
You sure jump to some odd conclusions. |
He presents an arguement (gay marriage will affect him personally because of his personal beliefs) and then won't support that arguement because we are "inadequate/incapable" of discussing it. I don't think I'm jumping to any conclusions at all.
The fact is, a person may not like the idea of two men getting married, and they may not see it as a valid mariage, but it isn't going to affect them personally. Their marriage won't weaken because of it, it won't be less legal, they won't lose any of the benefits of their own marriage. We're at 6 pages now, and no one has been able to explain how gay marriage lesses hetero marriage. Why? Because it doesn't. |
You jumped to the conclusion that jrjo means "it's everyone else's problem". I wouldn't start a religious debate in this forum either because they always turning into a large scale pissin' contest. If jrjo believes it, he believes it. He doesn't have to provide you, me or anyone else with an argument proving his beliefs.
We've got six pages of discussion on the subject. I don't believe the thread was dedicated to answering the question on how gay marriage lessens hetero marriage.
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Gogirlgo
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 06/08/06 - 16:24 Post subject:
Hey, if you go so far as to make a point on these pages, expect to be challenged on it. That was the whole point of this forum.
You're right, it's not like everyone couldn't make these contracts themselves. But why should the state recognize automatically only those who are married? Is it somehow to the state's benefit to have to use state workers to determine the medical outcome of a crash victim, for example b/c the state won't recognize the victim's significant other who isn't a spouse?
I want equality for everyone. But if the state were recommending that in this ban there will also be a massive overhaul of current policy so that these sorts of very real issues were solved, I bet we'd be a lot closer to a ban.
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sonnylax
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 06/09/06 - 07:43 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | So then, how is gay marriage any different then say abortion, gambling, prostitution, etc.? The Constitution is pretty clear on what the Federal Govt. can't do. All other rights are retained by the people. Why is this issue different? |
so you're saying that wanting gay marriage, or being gay, is criminal? |
Neither.
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