Should Bush's military record be an issue
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robp
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 Posted: 09/09/04 - 14:55 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | Do you think Kerry drinks Busch Beer? |
I be more inclined to think he drinks peach wine coolers.... |
With his pinky sticking up???  |
Cripes... I'm typing in ebonics....
Yeah, he probably puts them in little miniature teacups...
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 14:55 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | Do you think Kerry drinks Busch Beer? |
I be more inclined to think he drinks peach wine coolers.... |
With his pinky sticking up??? |
yeah, ms. heinz taught him real good she did.
PINKY IN THE AIR YOU MORON. (sound of whip cracking)
sorry dear. can i wear the pants today, maybe?? 
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genie
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 14:55 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: | | genie wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | Do you think Kerry drinks Busch Beer? |
I be more inclined to think he drinks peach wine coolers.... |
With his pinky sticking up??? |
I guess the real question should be, does anyone over 18 drink Busch beer? |
My ex brother in law does 
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Cappy
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 14:58 Post subject:
On the same note, do you think Kerry uses French's mustard?
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robp
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 14:59 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | genie wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | Do you think Kerry drinks Busch Beer? |
I be more inclined to think he drinks peach wine coolers.... |
With his pinky sticking up??? |
I guess the real question should be, does anyone over 18 drink Busch beer? |
My ex brother in law does |
My current brother in law does.
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genie
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:00 Post subject:
| rolling rock wrote: | | genie wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | Do you think Kerry drinks Busch Beer? |
I be more inclined to think he drinks peach wine coolers.... |
With his pinky sticking up??? |
yeah, ms. heinz taught him real good she did.
PINKY IN THE AIR YOU MORON. (sound of whip cracking)
sorry dear. can i wear the pants today, maybe?? |
Hmm....so if the W in GWBush is for Wrong, then is the F in JFKerry for......
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elkid
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:06 Post subject:
I see your Arrogant bastage. Normally I'd raise you
but I shall definitively end the beer argument and instead raise you
There simply is nothing better than Chimay. NOTHING.
| Quote: | | You really need to come out to the Drafting Room, they have a ton of great beers there. |
The one by Bethlehem Pike? I'm a regular there postclass. I have my own table and everything.
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Wicked Flea
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:07 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | If everyone believes military record is a non-issue, there why has there been such interest in dissecting Kerry’s? I know, "he made it an issue", but now that questions about Bush’s record are raised (again) the Repubs are back to “what happened 30 years ago isn’t relevant now”. Why is that? |
I don't think that you are going to get any Republicans to admit that they feel differently about Bush with this new information. They don't look at it as Bush lying about his service. Unfortunately the Swift Boat for Smear people got their licks in first and people are tired of hearing about Vietnam now.
| RexRacer wrote: | Some relevant thoughts on this topic, both past and present, courtesy of Josh Marshall at talkingpointsmemo.com:
Here's a note from a long-time social progressive/economic conservative who has gone increasingly progressive since Bush took office:
Bush's Guard service is a loser for the Dems even if the dereliction stories are entirely true, which they likely are. The problem is that nobody cares other than Democrats who despise Bush, and they seem like just a petty reaction to the Swift Boat ads. I would love for this election to be about the environment, choice on abortion, separation of church and state, invasion of privacy/Patriot Act, the economy, and the culture of fear the Bush admin is creating. But it's about Iraq and terrorism. Unfortunately, Kerry has done a terrible job of getting out any cohesive and compelling message about either. Here's what he needs to hammer for the remainder:
1. Bush is A TERRIBLE LEADER IN THE "WAR ON TERROR". He has failed in the hunt for Osama, misdeployed resources, and put off allies who are key to our long-term success against terrorism. Look beyond the macho swagger of Bush and see that he is completely screwing up this incredibly important long-term battle.
2. Bush and the neocon puppet masters deceived the nation into Iraq, then completely blew the execution of a horrible war, costing us more than a thousand soldiers and billions of dollars, killing countless innocent Iraqis, and creating a disastrous and extremely dangerous situation for America for years to come.
3. Bush has blown the economy.
4. Kerry is the man to put America and the world on course for a better future.
Kerry must not only make these points, he must be pissed off about them. Undecided voters are not compelled to vote by Kerry's suggestion that he can do Bush better than Bush. They, and the party voters we need to inspire to actually cast ballots, will respond to Kerry's passionate belief that Bush is seriously taking this country down a bad path and that Kerry can take us on a safer, more prosperous path. Unfortunately, Kerry's voting record on Iraq prohibits him from taking the real winning stand that the Iraq war was a horrible mistake. So he must refocus on the idea that Bush is a horrible president whose decisions are having disastrous consequences. Kerry has to want to lead this country, and he needs to show Americans that he wants badly to lead this country. |
I absolutely agree and I hope Kerry from now on and the future debates will stick to the issues at hand. Which do not include Vietnam.
Last edited by Wicked Flea on 09/09/04 - 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:08 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | purple hayes wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | If everyone believes military record is a non-issue, there why has there been such interest in dissecting Kerry’s? I know, "he made it an issue", but now that questions about Bush’s record are raised (again) the Repubs are back to “what happened 30 years ago isn’t relevant now”. Why is that? |
I never said that. |
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. But a lot of Repubs (and some people here) have been very critical of Kerry's military record. Why not the same interest in Bush's? |
Wasn't part of what has been debated, (and this kind of addresses what Lauri just answered me too, I think) the criteria for which a purple heart is awarded and how he actually got injured to get his? It sounds petty, but that lends even more validity to what she said. From my little knowledge of the military, you don't become a 4-star general just for showing up every day, you earn that. And I thought it was the same for purple hearts but it sounded like from what a lot of people were saying that it's not simply active combat injury that qualifies you for one. And what I mean by that is physically being engaged in battle, as opposed to dropping a box of ammo on your toe or something (an exaggeration but used only to stress my point) Does anyone out there know what the criteria is? The answer to that question seems to be part of the national debate from the little bit I've been paying attention to. |
I guess I do think it is petty to argue whether or not Kerry’s combat wound should have been 3.4 cm bigger to qualify for a Purple Heart but give Dubya a pass when he refused to even show up for his physical.
I don’t think that serving in the military is a pre-requisite for being president. But in this case, Bush did whatever he could to get out of going to Vietnam. I don’t blame him, war is a horrible thing and I would be afraid to go too. But he then chose to start a war and send 1000+ Americans off to die doing a job he was too scared to do.
I know, some of you will argue he didn’t chose to start the war, that it was a “group” decision, etc. I obviously disagree. He was determined to get Saddam and did whatever he could to make that happen. Maybe if he had faced combat (or even fulfilled his Guard requirement), he would have had a better understanding of what he was asking our troops to do.
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genie
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:12 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | I see your Arrogant bastage. Normally I'd raise you
but I shall definitively end the beer argument and instead raise you
There simply is nothing better than Chimay. NOTHING.
| Quote: | | You really need to come out to the Drafting Room, they have a ton of great beers there. |
The one by Bethlehem Pike? I'm a regular there postclass. I have my own table and everything. |
DAMMIT!!! I was just looking for a Chimay pic in case you came back.  OK, you win 
Yes, there's that one which my work group goes to and there's one in Exton not far from Victory. I should have known you would have found the one by school, I keep forgetting that's where you go.
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genie
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:16 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | genie wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | purple hayes wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | If everyone believes military record is a non-issue, there why has there been such interest in dissecting Kerry’s? I know, "he made it an issue", but now that questions about Bush’s record are raised (again) the Repubs are back to “what happened 30 years ago isn’t relevant now”. Why is that? |
I never said that. |
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. But a lot of Repubs (and some people here) have been very critical of Kerry's military record. Why not the same interest in Bush's? |
Wasn't part of what has been debated, (and this kind of addresses what Lauri just answered me too, I think) the criteria for which a purple heart is awarded and how he actually got injured to get his? It sounds petty, but that lends even more validity to what she said. From my little knowledge of the military, you don't become a 4-star general just for showing up every day, you earn that. And I thought it was the same for purple hearts but it sounded like from what a lot of people were saying that it's not simply active combat injury that qualifies you for one. And what I mean by that is physically being engaged in battle, as opposed to dropping a box of ammo on your toe or something (an exaggeration but used only to stress my point) Does anyone out there know what the criteria is? The answer to that question seems to be part of the national debate from the little bit I've been paying attention to. |
I guess I do think it is petty to argue whether or not Kerry’s combat wound should have been 3.4 cm bigger to qualify for a Purple Heart but give Dubya a pass when he refused to even show up for his physical.
I don’t think that serving in the military is a pre-requisite for being president. But in this case, Bush did whatever he could to get out of going to Vietnam. I don’t blame him, war is a horrible thing and I would be afraid to go too. But he then chose to start a war and send 1000+ Americans off to die doing a job he was too scared to do.
I know, some of you will argue he didn’t chose to start the war, that it was a “group” decision, etc. I obviously disagree. He was determined to get Saddam and did whatever he could to make that happen. Maybe if he had faced combat (or even fulfilled his Guard requirement), he would have had a better understanding of what he was asking our troops to do. |
I'm actually not giving either of them a pass. That whole sidebar was more an answer to elkid's question about the four star general or highly decorated combat vet, and my point was, if the highly decorated vet got six purple hearts for scratching his hand on the side of his jeep or something equally lame, then no, that would not boost his political resume, whereas a lifetime career leading to generalship would. Not in total, but in part. My answer to your original question was that I don't care about that nonsense, I want to hear what each of them plans to DO for the next four years, and so far, I've heard little from Kerry as to specific plans.
But I do see where you're coming from on the second part, knowing your views on the war, and why some people would be pretty pissed to hear about this. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, I want to think on it some more before I comment.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:19 Post subject:
| RexRacer wrote: | Some relevant thoughts on this topic, both past and present, courtesy of Josh Marshall at talkingpointsmemo.com:
Here's a note from a long-time social progressive/economic conservative who has gone increasingly progressive since Bush took office:
Bush's Guard service is a loser for the Dems even if the dereliction stories are entirely true, which they likely are. The problem is that nobody cares other than Democrats who despise Bush, and they seem like just a petty reaction to the Swift Boat ads. I would love for this election to be about the environment, choice on abortion, separation of church and state, invasion of privacy/Patriot Act, the economy, and the culture of fear the Bush admin is creating. But it's about Iraq and terrorism. Unfortunately, Kerry has done a terrible job of getting out any cohesive and compelling message about either. Here's what he needs to hammer for the remainder:
1. Bush is A TERRIBLE LEADER IN THE "WAR ON TERROR". He has failed in the hunt for Osama, misdeployed resources, and put off allies who are key to our long-term success against terrorism. Look beyond the macho swagger of Bush and see that he is completely screwing up this incredibly important long-term battle.
2. Bush and the neocon puppet masters deceived the nation into Iraq, then completely blew the execution of a horrible war, costing us more than a thousand soldiers and billions of dollars, killing countless innocent Iraqis, and creating a disastrous and extremely dangerous situation for America for years to come.
3. Bush has blown the economy.
4. Kerry is the man to put America and the world on course for a better future.
Kerry must not only make these points, he must be pissed off about them. Undecided voters are not compelled to vote by Kerry's suggestion that he can do Bush better than Bush. They, and the party voters we need to inspire to actually cast ballots, will respond to Kerry's passionate belief that Bush is seriously taking this country down a bad path and that Kerry can take us on a safer, more prosperous path. Unfortunately, Kerry's voting record on Iraq prohibits him from taking the real winning stand that the Iraq war was a horrible mistake. So he must refocus on the idea that Bush is a horrible president whose decisions are having disastrous consequences. Kerry has to want to lead this country, and he needs to show Americans that he wants badly to lead this country. |
[guiness ad]BRILLIANT![/guiness]
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roacher
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:20 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | elkid wrote: | I see your Arrogant bastage. Normally I'd raise you
but I shall definitively end the beer argument and instead raise you
There simply is nothing better than Chimay. NOTHING.
| Quote: | | You really need to come out to the Drafting Room, they have a ton of great beers there. |
The one by Bethlehem Pike? I'm a regular there postclass. I have my own table and everything. |
DAMMIT!!! I was just looking for a Chimay pic in case you came back. OK, you win
Yes, there's that one which my work group goes to and there's one in Exton not far from Victory. I should have known you would have found the one by school, I keep forgetting that's where you go. |
Genie you should not give up so easily. I love Chimay but I'll put this locally brewed beauty against anything made anywhere.
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genie
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:22 Post subject:
Ooooh, is that better than our Chicory Stout? 
The Punkin Ale is out, I may take a drive down there this weekend to get some!
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Cappy
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Posted: 09/09/04 - 15:25 Post subject:
I like Bush's Baked Beans
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