Self Image of Significant Others
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Joined: 21 Aug 2003
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 Posted: 02/10/05 - 13:14 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
I don't understand why you don't react like rational humans with the ability to reason. You have the ability to reason, just like men do... |
I'm not sure I'd hold up men up this bastion of rationality. We just have different things that we are irrational about. Not to mention that all of this is a learned behavior and emotion when we are younger and young males are constantly judging and rating the looks and physical features of teenaged girls. Call it high school.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 02/10/05 - 13:32 Post subject:
Well said Pug!
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Laurie Ellen
Queenie
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Posted: 02/10/05 - 14:34 Post subject:
| airehead wrote: | | Well said Pug! |
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copteacher
Adjunct
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 02:37 Post subject:
| brie k wrote: |
Until you grow a uterus, don't try to understand women. You will never understand. It's a girl/woman thing (and certainly not all girls/women have esteem issues). |
I hate the uterus argument. No men won't understand but at least we try to be sympathetic. Wimmins do not have balls so don't try to understand men's view point either. We are the ones whom are on the receiving end of the moods and try our best to support our women. It is very difficult when they dont believe us or basically slap us in the face when we try to understand.
I know I won't understand women and I do not expect them to understand men either. That is why we are wired differently.
This is not directed at anyone I am making a generalization and defending the honor of many men who quietly and patiently support their SO's.
Last edited by copteacher on 02/11/05 - 03:02; edited 1 time in total
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copteacher
Adjunct
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 02:45 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
It sounds like you can't understand why we don't react like...well, like guys. We don't. We can't. And we're better managers and better at working at groups because of it. We work in consensus. We listen to what others say. We value what others say. That trait doesn't get turned on in the board room and turned off in the mirror. |
That is quite a stretch that women are better managers. They may be as good, equal but certainly not better. Eisenhower commanded 8 million troops from over numerous countries with mulitple personalities, political considerations and the like. He built a great team, listened to his various experts and made decisions. It was the largest "consensus" known to man and we all know the results.
Consensus building is not the only criteria for a good manager. A good manager must make decisions with feelings aside sometime. A good leader will listen to input then make the decision based on what is heard and what he/she thinks is best. That is not a male/female thing, that is good management skills.
Men do that just as well as women.
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 08:09 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
[Generalization] If women were more resistant to those messages, maybe their self-esteem issues wouldn't be as problematic? I see the problem is how women react/internalize to the "pressures," not necessarily the "pressures" themselves. |
generalization is the keyword there sonny. most women do not REACT to those pressures. the "pressures" themselves have been there, on women, since the 40s, and they are everywhere sonny. they are in the checkout line on covers and in print, they are on TV, on most every show and a hellalot of commercials, they are in Barnes and Noble and any other bookstore you'd like to browse, they are on the all over the WWW, they are in movie theaters, they are in pharmacies, department stores, discount stores, they are in plastic surgeon's offices and plastic surgeons' infomercials, it is there, on 5th avenue, it is in Paris, it is in LA, it is in most every downtown department store window across america; it is broadcasting the daily news (fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, network or cable) it is in Hollyweird, it is on CD covers, it is on MTV, VH1, and especially shows like Extreme Makeover (FEMALE edition), it can be seen on the side of a bus, it's on billboards, it's most definitely in adult bookstores and porn shops, it's made it's way into high schools across america, junior highs and it's trickling into the elementary schools. the message, simply is this: BE A SIZE 2, have huge lips, have huge breasts, have clear skin, don't have a wrinkle, don't have a tummy, don't have varicose veins, don't have frown lines, please don't have yellow teeth, please don't have crooked teeth, , please don't have frizzies or split ends, please don't allow yourself to show your age, at any age. You are female, this should be YOU; F the real you. this is how you should look, for our pleasure, and until you do, you just don't cut it.
it's a bombardment. it is slowly seeping into the mens' industry with the advent of "make me hard" drugs and Mens' Fitness magazines....if you don't like what you see, well, it's been in our face since way before most of us, on this board, were even born.
that's where the pressure comes from. whether we eat it up, or spit it out, is up to each individual woman. it's much more far reaching than just the tennis world or the running world or the golfing world or any specialized segment or special interest in society because it is everywhere we seem to be. guess we'll just have to try harder to be "more resistant" yeah, it's like pushing back a hurricane.
i mean no disrespect to any one or any person who has written in this thread. i do not want this thread to turn into a boys vs girls bleepin' match...this is my blog. my spin, 46 years worth, of being on this side of that mighty wind. that's all.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 12:24 Post subject:
| rolling rock wrote: |
generalization is the keyword there sonny. most women do not REACT to those pressures. the "pressures" themselves have been there, on women, since the 40s, and they are everywhere sonny. they are in the checkout line on covers and in print, they are on TV, on most every show and a hellalot of commercials, they are in Barnes and Noble and any other bookstore you'd like to browse, they are on the all over the WWW, they are in movie theaters, they are in pharmacies, department stores, discount stores, they are in plastic surgeon's offices and plastic surgeons' infomercials, it is there, on 5th avenue, it is in Paris, it is in LA, it is in most every downtown department store window across america; it is broadcasting the daily news (fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, network or cable) it is in Hollyweird, it is on CD covers, it is on MTV, VH1, and especially shows like Extreme Makeover (FEMALE edition), it can be seen on the side of a bus, it's on billboards, it's most definitely in adult bookstores and porn shops, it's made it's way into high schools across america, junior highs and it's trickling into the elementary schools. the message, simply is this: BE A SIZE 2, have huge lips, have huge breasts, have clear skin, don't have a wrinkle, don't have a tummy, don't have varicose veins, don't have frown lines, please don't have yellow teeth, please don't have crooked teeth, , please don't have frizzies or split ends, please don't allow yourself to show your age, at any age. You are female, this should be YOU; F the real you. this is how you should look, for our pleasure, and until you do, you just don't cut it.
it's a bombardment. it is slowly seeping into the mens' industry with the advent of "make me hard" drugs and Mens' Fitness magazines....if you don't like what you see, well, it's been in our face since way before most of us, on this board, were even born.
that's where the pressure comes from. whether we eat it up, or spit it out, is up to each individual woman. it's much more far reaching than just the tennis world or the running world or the golfing world or any specialized segment or special interest in society because it is everywhere we seem to be. guess we'll just have to try harder to be "more resistant" yeah, it's like pushing back a hurricane.
i mean no disrespect to any one or any person who has written in this thread. i do not want this thread to turn into a boys vs girls bleepin' match...this is my blog. my spin, 46 years worth, of being on this side of that mighty wind. that's all. |
And Goodness forbid we ever age!!!!  
And Joe, I don't think Brie's argument was directed at men like you and Pug and Rob and others who are trying really hard to stand behind their wimmins. I think it is more directed at the men who aren't being very sensitive and instead are being callous.
I would hasten to say that many women given the chance would give up the hormonal mood swings if they could. Remember in HS when you were just angry or happy or sad for no reason and the intensity of your emotions shocked you and had no way to let it out??? That's what being a woman is like sometimes. Some women are blessed with even, regular lives while others don't have it so easy.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 15:35 Post subject:
| rolling rock wrote: |
generalization is the keyword there sonny. most women do not REACT to those pressures. the "pressures" themselves have been there, on women, since the 40s, and they are everywhere sonny. they are in the checkout line on covers and in print, they are on TV, on most every show and a hellalot of commercials, they are in Barnes and Noble and any other bookstore you'd like to browse, they are on the all over the WWW, they are in movie theaters, they are in pharmacies, department stores, discount stores, they are in plastic surgeon's offices and plastic surgeons' infomercials, it is there, on 5th avenue, it is in Paris, it is in LA, it is in most every downtown department store window across america; it is broadcasting the daily news (fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, network or cable) it is in Hollyweird, it is on CD covers, it is on MTV, VH1, and especially shows like Extreme Makeover (FEMALE edition), it can be seen on the side of a bus, it's on billboards, it's most definitely in adult bookstores and porn shops, it's made it's way into high schools across america, junior highs and it's trickling into the elementary schools. the message, simply is this: BE A SIZE 2, have huge lips, have huge breasts, have clear skin, don't have a wrinkle, don't have a tummy, don't have varicose veins, don't have frown lines, please don't have yellow teeth, please don't have crooked teeth, , please don't have frizzies or split ends, please don't allow yourself to show your age, at any age. You are female, this should be YOU; F the real you. this is how you should look, for our pleasure, and until you do, you just don't cut it.
it's a bombardment. it is slowly seeping into the mens' industry with the advent of "make me hard" drugs and Mens' Fitness magazines....if you don't like what you see, well, it's been in our face since way before most of us, on this board, were even born.
that's where the pressure comes from. whether we eat it up, or spit it out, is up to each individual woman. it's much more far reaching than just the tennis world or the running world or the golfing world or any specialized segment or special interest in society because it is everywhere we seem to be. guess we'll just have to try harder to be "more resistant" yeah, it's like pushing back a hurricane.
i mean no disrespect to any one or any person who has written in this thread. i do not want this thread to turn into a boys vs girls bleepin' match...this is my blog. my spin, 46 years worth, of being on this side of that mighty wind. that's all. |
word. Just like we grow up being taught to speak, walk, talk, read, put on clothes...we grow up hearing and seeing (and thus learning) that smaller, whiter, curlier, straighter, brighter, smoother, etc etc is better, that perfection will get you everywhere, and that the 'homely' girls will just be left behind. Its just taught, indirectly, to both men (as to what is beautiful, what to expect) and women (what to achieve) our whole lives. We may be able to block some or 'rationalize' against a few things, but its like trying to unlearn something you've always done differently. Its pretty hard.
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RunsLikeAGirl
Member
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 15:44 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: |
That is quite a stretch that women are better managers. They may be as good, equal but certainly not better. Eisenhower commanded 8 million troops from over numerous countries with mulitple personalities, political considerations and the like. He built a great team, listened to his various experts and made decisions. It was the largest "consensus" known to man and we all know the results.
Consensus building is not the only criteria for a good manager. A good manager must make decisions with feelings aside sometime. A good leader will listen to input then make the decision based on what is heard and what he/she thinks is best. That is not a male/female thing, that is good management skills.
Men do that just as well as women. |
I have to disagree to some extent, here, Joe. Eisenhower and men like him are the exception, not the rule. I don't know any manager, male or female, that could do what he did. I think Go is speaking in more general terms.
Perhaps it's because there are so few women in management positions that it seems that women are better at it - let's face it, a girl's gotta really know her sh!t to land that position. As much as equality in the workplace is emphasized, it's not there yet, in my opinion. As a result, the women I've worked for/with have really been quality managers. The men...not so much.
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RunsLikeAGirl
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 15:48 Post subject:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's not just women with the image issues. I've dated/known plenty of men that will have none of it when you tell them they're hot. I'm just sayin'.
I do agree that it happens more often with women, though.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 22:01 Post subject:
| RunsLikeAGirl wrote: | I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's not just women with the image issues. I've dated/known plenty of men that will have none of it when you tell them they're hot. I'm just sayin'.
I do agree that it happens more often with women, though. |
true dat. I kind of cringe when I hear "female triad syndrome". Obviously men don't have the same effect, but they CAN and DO have the symptoms
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 02/11/05 - 22:36 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: |
That is quite a stretch that women are better managers. Men do that just as well as women. |
I call it like I see it. I've had male managers. I've had female managers. The females were better. They listen to everyone, they're into consensus. My voice matters. I much prefer that and the other women with whom I've worked in a variety of jobs seem to agree with me.
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copteacher
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Posted: 02/12/05 - 07:33 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
I call it like I see it. I've had male managers. I've had female managers. The females were better. They listen to everyone, they're into consensus. My voice matters. I much prefer that and the other women with whom I've worked in a variety of jobs seem to agree with me. |
Okay then. But that is still a small sample. I have a female boss now that is condescending, belittles and does nothing but irritate the officers. Nothing like our last Sgt who was male. This lady has no idea how to build morale or get the team to work together. She is more interested in how she looks and wants to be the stern school marm than anything. Yet I do not judge all women by her.
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Noley
AZhat
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Posted: 03/15/05 - 13:56 Post subject:
;You know FB, it's all about self-esteem really. I don't care how good a woman can look or how great of shape a she could be in, it all depends on her self-esteem. I have been in great shape. I have been skinny. I have been close to anorexic (college days). I have been muscular. I have been pregnant feeling consumed by an alien invasion. I have been post-partem three times where I really felt fat terrible. I have been out of shape and 20 pounds overweight. I have gotten back into shape and ran a 26.2 at a good weight. All of that. That being said...
I have never, ever, never, ever, never felt good about myself AND...AND...I always feel that I have room to improve my looks.
Where does this come from? It comes from a poor self-esteem. How did I get this way? Not sure? My parents never put me down for who I was, nor did they set me out to feel low about myself since my earliest memories. Sure it didn't help that I was constantly teased by my peers during my adolescent years...but who knows? Who knows why I still sit here today and do not accept the person that I am?
All I can say it that it comes from within. What gets me through it now is that I know I work my ass off to try to stay fit and look good. I cannot do much more than I do now to be in shape with what's going on in my life; however, I make it a choice to do all I can do to be at my best at this stage in my life.
Will I ever be 100% happy with myself? No I won't. Sorry, that's just me. If I could figure out how to be that way, I'd solve one of my lifetime woes. Until then, I'll just continue to strive to do all that I can to look and feel good.
Try to stay understanding of your wife. Always do tell her that you think she's attractive to you. It does help whether you think so or not. Understand that she may never change her own perception of herself while she lives on this earth. I totally get where she's coming from and join her in the ranks of low self-esteem issues.
Good luck.
I hope this helps.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Posted: 03/16/05 - 00:49 Post subject:
You said it very well, Nolefan. 
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