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DCRunningDiva
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 Posted: 07/24/06 - 22:00 Post subject: Science & Religion
| MechEngDropout wrote: |
I am curious as to how you give thought that you are a scientist, yet disregard science when it doesn't fit your religion. |
| camelia bedelia wrote: |
But how can you accept science when it backs up what you believe, and discount it when it doesn't? |
So that I don't go off topic in two other threads...
I have said many times on this board that my faith is the number one priority in my life. I am a Christian first and a scientist second (well, actually I'm a wife, a mother, etc...before I'm a scientist). There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts itself but there are things in science that do.
Besides, science and God are not mutually exclusive. God created the physical universe and science is just merely a meager attempt to explain God's creation.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/24/06 - 22:57 Post subject: Re: Science & Religion
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts itself but there are things in science that do.
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Are you saying that science contradicts itself or that science contradicts the Bible?
In what way are you a scientist, Diva?
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 07/25/06 - 08:19 Post subject: Re: Science & Religion
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: | There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts itself but there are things in science that do.
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Are you saying that science contradicts itself or that science contradicts the Bible?
In what way are you a scientist, Diva? |
There are "holes" in science.
I have an advanced degree in Biology.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/25/06 - 08:46 Post subject: Re: Science & Religion
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: | There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts itself but there are things in science that do.
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Are you saying that science contradicts itself or that science contradicts the Bible?
In what way are you a scientist, Diva? |
There are "holes" in science.
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Of course there are. And there are a lot of people that say there are "holes" in the Bible, and who would disagree that the Bible never contradicts itself. I know you don't see it that way, but that is just one opinion.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 07/25/06 - 08:58 Post subject: Re: Science & Religion
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts itself but there are things in science that do.
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This is only done to create further discussion; it is certainly not a test of one's faith, salvation doesn't depend on this:
| Quote: | Acts 1:15-19
In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry." (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Matthew 27: 3-8
Then when Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself. But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, "It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they took counsel and bought with them the potter's field as a burial place for strangers. Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
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I think this makes it clear that the Bible does indeed contain at least 1 contradiction. Did Judas hang himself, or fall on a sword? (or simply fall down and explode?) Who bought the field?
Should this erode my faith in God? I answer "no" because I believe that it is entirely possible that the humans who wrote down the things that happened were not able to get all the facts 100% correct. It also means that when I read scripture, I need to be aware of possible misinterpretations, the context of that scripture, and the people who are being addressed by that scripture. After that, I should run it through the "Jesus Filter" and discover if that scripture lines up with Jesus' teachings.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/26/06 - 17:13 Post subject: Re: Science & Religion
| keltic63 wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: |
There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts itself but there are things in science that do.
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This is only done to create further discussion; it is certainly not a test of one's faith, salvation doesn't depend on this:
| Quote: | Acts 1:15-19
In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry." (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Matthew 27: 3-8
Then when Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself. But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, "It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they took counsel and bought with them the potter's field as a burial place for strangers. Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
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I think this makes it clear that the Bible does indeed contain at least 1 contradiction. Did Judas hang himself, or fall on a sword? (or simply fall down and explode?) Who bought the field?
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I'd love to hear some responses to this.
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andydp
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 08:34 Post subject:
As a student of History, I am amused by similarities in today's science v. religion debate and past events.
For millenia scientists thought the Earth was the middle of the universe. People were executed for this heresy by the church. Models and drawings were made and books written to show how this theory was true. Then Copernicus and others like Galileo proved the earth was actually a small part of a fantastic thing called the universe.
When Darwin first proposed his theory the same exact thing happened as is happening right now: Bible says one thing, science says another. Evolution is evil, Bible belief is old hat etc. etc. Nothing has changed - the debate still rages and will continue to rage.
Bible is true word of God vs Bible is a collection of historical writings vs Inspired word of God. This has also been going on for longer than we want to acknowledge. On the one hand, we acknowledge the basis for our society is in the Bible; however, the same general rules are also present in other religious writings from other parts of the world.
Historical events depicted in the Bible are constantly being proven as true. We need to remember the Bible was written for a relatively "small" audience: a collection of tribes that settled in an area of the world called Galilee. It was written in terms that could be understood by people with very very limited education or base of knowledge. I am convinced if Moses had led his People to a spot about 200 miles north of Galilee the "Epic of Gilgamesh" would be one of the books of the Bible.
Speaking of which, the Bible as we know it was "standardized" by a bunch of religious humans at the Council of Nicea in about 600 AD. That is also when Jesus was formally made part of the Holy Trinity i.e. deified.
Remember, nothing we are discussing is new. Its just changed a bit as far as language but its still the same old debate.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 15:18 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | As a student of History, I am amused by similarities in today's science v. religion debate and past events.
For millenia scientists thought the Earth was the middle of the universe. People were executed for this heresy by the church. Models and drawings were made and books written to show how this theory was true. Then Copernicus and others like Galileo proved the earth was actually a small part of a fantastic thing called the universe.
When Darwin first proposed his theory the same exact thing happened as is happening right now: Bible says one thing, science says another. Evolution is evil, Bible belief is old hat etc. etc. Nothing has changed - the debate still rages and will continue to rage.
Bible is true word of God vs Bible is a collection of historical writings vs Inspired word of God. This has also been going on for longer than we want to acknowledge. On the one hand, we acknowledge the basis for our society is in the Bible; however, the same general rules are also present in other religious writings from other parts of the world.
Historical events depicted in the Bible are constantly being proven as true. We need to remember the Bible was written for a relatively "small" audience: a collection of tribes that settled in an area of the world called Galilee. It was written in terms that could be understood by people with very very limited education or base of knowledge. I am convinced if Moses had led his People to a spot about 200 miles north of Galilee the "Epic of Gilgamesh" would be one of the books of the Bible.
Speaking of which, the Bible as we know it was "standardized" by a bunch of religious humans at the Council of Nicea in about 600 AD. That is also when Jesus was formally made part of the Holy Trinity i.e. deified.
Remember, nothing we are discussing is new. Its just changed a bit as far as language but its still the same old debate. |
Andy,
I mean no disrespect to you but you have made several false statements above. The one that really bothers me the most is the statment about the Trinity being defined at the Council of Nicea. Please do yourself a favor and research this a little more.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 15:43 Post subject:
Okay, I was wrong. There are things in the Bible that are contradictory. I have done a little research on my own and found a few others as well. But, the contradictions I have found are not "substantial" enough to (as Keltic said) erode my faith in God. They are not contradictions about the "meat" of the Bible/Gospel.
I get defensive (obviously) when people start talking bad about my God or my faith. I know many people say there are contradictions in the Bible yet they have read scripture out of context or they haven't really read/understood the scripture at all. They may have heard it was contradictory and just decided to go along with what everyone else was saying. Those are the folks I really would like to talk to because if they could only see the truth of the scriptures I believe their lives could somehow be changed like mine was when I really started studying the Bible on my own.
Granted, I'm no scholar (nowhere near) but there is one thing I do know; God's inspired word - the Bible - can and will change your life if you do more than just read the words (i.e. study it).
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 16:37 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
Granted, I'm no scholar (nowhere near) but there is one thing I do know; God's inspired word - the Bible - can and will change your life if you do more than just read the words (i.e. study it). |
the same can be said though for Islam and Bhuddism.
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 16:40 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: |
Granted, I'm no scholar (nowhere near) but there is one thing I do know; God's inspired word - the Bible - can and will change your life if you do more than just read the words (i.e. study it). |
the same can be said though for Islam and Bhuddism. |
i got interrupted mid thought sorry.
a lot of native cultures can also give the same inspiration. just because a book can provide inspiration does not mean it was divinely inspired. However, if it helps you get thru the day and be a better person, go for it just remember not everyone will share your views.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 18:56 Post subject:
you wouldn't 'have' to study it, if it weren't so ambiguous. The 10 commandments are pretty straight forward.
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andydp
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 18:57 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | Speaking of which, the Bible as we know it was "standardized" by a bunch of religious humans at the Council of Nicea in about 600 AD. That is also when Jesus was formally made part of the Holy Trinity i.e. deified.
Remember, nothing we are discussing is new. Its just changed a bit as far as language but its still the same old debate.
Andy,
I mean no disrespect to you but you have made several false statements above. The one that really bothers me the most is the statment about the Trinity being defined at the Council of Nicea. Please do yourself a favor and research this a little more. |
The council of Nicea "Deified/Made Jesus God/Put Jesus on the same level as God the Father". What part of that terminology is not true ? Look it up, its a historical fact.
As for the other things: What did I say was false ?
Darwin's theory is still being argued ?
The Bible was written for a small group of people living in Galilee ? It was written in terms a group of people with very limited knowledge could understand. If you look into my statement its truly wonderful how God managed to get that book written so its still relevant to people in this day and age.
Galileo was not persecuted for his theory ?
If Moses had settled 300 miles north the "Epic of Gilgamesh" would be a book of the Bible ? Why not ? We recognize the Bible as a chronicle of the Children of Israel. Why would they not assimilate other cultures when they took over the Promised Land ?
I am not making light of the Bible, I believe in the Bible, its part of my being. The fact the Bible has lasted so long is a credit to its relevance in this world.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 20:07 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
Andy,
I mean no disrespect to you but you have made several false statements above. The one that really bothers me the most is the statment about the Trinity being defined at the Council of Nicea. Please do yourself a favor and research this a little more. |
Please provide the information/research that supports your argument, since you know it.
One big difference that I see between science and religion is how mistakes are handled. Diva forcefully proclaims that the bible is the word of God and has no contradictions, then when contradictions are presented, she says that they are irrelevant and not important to the overall message. Mistakes and changes in the formal beliefs of religion are often swept under the rug, whereas in science we strive to know the complete picture, even if it proves us wrong. We'll laugh about what we used to think was correct, but keep tocking away to try and figure out what is a better model. And I really don't mean to single you out Diva, it's just a good example and I think it happens on a much larger scale - not just individuals and small groups/churches.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/27/06 - 20:26 Post subject: Re: Science & Religion
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | Okay, I was wrong. There are things in the Bible that are contradictory. I have done a little research on my own and found a few others as well. But, the contradictions I have found are not "substantial" enough to (as Keltic said) erode my faith in God. They are not contradictions about the "meat" of the Bible/Gospel.
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I appreciate you being able to admit you were wrong about that point, and certainly from my viewpoint, admiting errancy in the Bible doesn't have to erode anyone's faith in God. The Bible doesn't have to be true word for word to have meaning.
But back to the topic...............
| MechEngDropout wrote: |
I am curious as to how you give thought that you are a scientist, yet disregard science when it doesn't fit your religion. |
| camelia bedelia wrote: |
But how can you accept science when it backs up what you believe, and discount it when it doesn't? |
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