Responsibility of Embedded Reporters Covering War
|
|
 
|
|
|
|
|
|
megawill
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1552
|
| Back to top
|
|
 Posted: 11/16/04 - 12:23 Post subject: Responsibility of Embedded Reporters Covering War
This case is getting some air-time right now...where a marine apparently shot an unarmed and injured iraqi insurgent point blank...the scene was caught on film by an embedded camera crew from NBC.
My question is; is this something that should be reported to the public? For what purpose? Should the tape just have been turned over to the military command under the premise that the incident would be investigated and the soldier prosecuted?
He's dead now..
***warning the link contains some graphic language and still images...
|
|
|
|
|
Gogirlgo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 13:03 Post subject:
Some people would say if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I think if it's a matter of national security, it should stay quiet. But this wasn't. I think we do our society a disservice when we pretend things like this don't happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Cappy
Excelent
|
|
|
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 13:07 Post subject:
I am okay with NBC showing the tape. The Marine in question probably would have gotten away with it had he not gotten caught on tape.
If there is more to the story, I hope the Marine gets a fair trial and if he is found guilty that he is punished
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 14:13 Post subject:
We have no idea of the context of what exactly happened. Just a short video from NBC. There have been stories/reports of some of the Islamic Terrorists playing dead/hiding weapons and attacking vulnerable US/Alliance troops.
|
|
|
|
|
genie
Master of Prissface
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 16194
Location: Finding serenity one day at a time
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 14:18 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | We have no idea of the context of what exactly happened. Just a short video from NBC. There have been stories/reports of some of the Islamic Terrorists playing dead/hiding weapons and attacking vulnerable US/Alliance troops. |
Yes, what really irks me is the double standard in this country. Those savages are over there doing this just as Sonny mentions....and worse....to our soldiers every day (I heard the same thing this morning, btw, about the playing dead thing) and yet as soon as one of our own plays by THEIR rules, it's a problem. Should we just turn the other cheek and continue to let them kill us? Or should we beat them down with their own strategies and end this once and for all?
Sorry, but that really smokes me. Just because we haven't caught any of them on tape doing anything, does that mean they aren't doing that....or worse? And why is that OK? This is war, folks, not some friendly game of Battleship. Does anyone honestly think the terrorists are worried about playing dirty? I don't. And before anyone says two wrongs don't make a right, that's certainly true, but fight a bully on his own terms and beat him with his own weapons and he often backs down. There's a time and place to be "the better man" and it isn't at the risk of our soldiers. If we had beat the poo out of them to begin with and not been so namby pamby about it, this would already be over and the troops would be home.
|
|
|
|
|
robp
Pyromaniac
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16242
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 14:23 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | We have no idea of the context of what exactly happened. Just a short video from NBC. There have been stories/reports of some of the Islamic Terrorists playing dead/hiding weapons and attacking vulnerable US/Alliance troops. |
Exactly. They also booby trap their own dead so that if someone comes over to establish whether a casualty is deceased or not a bomb goes off. That reporter shouldn't have been videotaping and should've kept his mouth shut.
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 14:28 Post subject:
The troops are doing an amazing job in Fallujah. Remember when we were all told about how horrible the situation was in that city and how we couldn't overtake all of them? But the doom and gloom media tends to focus on the negative stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
prohemp
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 7716
Location: in the cradle of liberty
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 14:53 Post subject: Re: Responsibility of Embedded Reporters Covering War
| megawill wrote: |
My questions are:
| Quote: | | is this something that should be reported to the public? For what purpose? |
Horrible things go on in war, but with this instant reporting, it reduces the weight of the nature of life and death conflict to a comfortable load. Then, when gravity kicks in for a moment, such as in this case - all of a sudden the whole thing comes crashing down and people say- "That's horrible!!!" It's sort of a self-correcting mechanism.
| Quote: | | Should the tape just have been turned over to the military command under the premise that the incident would be investigated and the soldier prosecuted? |
yes and No = No - This is what NBC is paying this guy for - breaking news, a story to be talked about for weeks and months and everytime it is, NBC is refered to. They live for this $hit. Besides, cover ups are far more more damaging than the incidents being covered up.
Yes - this is the proverbial fly on the wall - hopefully it will ensure that there will be an inquiry.
With that having been said - If the soldier honestly thought that the insurgent was trying to play dead to kill American soldiers, then his actions were understandable. And from everything that we've been told, that's the case. This wasn't a POW camp, this was the middle of a battlefield.The fact remains that you don't get a second chance with your life, and the marines want to take every precaution in a foreign country against an enemy known for this type of attack. Unfortunately, this Marine as many soldiers for centuries before him, chose poorly. But I'm not going to judge him. I wasn't there. I don't know what pain he was in or if he's a psychopath who needs to be put down like a dog.
It is what it is. War
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gogirlgo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 15:06 Post subject:
Thought you might find the following view from the other side interesting. It's from a weblog of an Iraqi woman.
Tuesday, November 16, 2004
American Heroes...
I'm feeling sick- literally. I can't get the video Al-Jazeera played out of my head:
The mosque strewn with bodies of Iraqis- not still with prayer or meditation, but prostrate with death- Some seemingly bloated… an old man with a younger one leaning upon him… legs, feet, hands, blood everywhere… The dusty sun filtering in through the windows… the stillness of the horrid place. Then the stillness is broken- in walk some marines, guns pointed at the bodies... the mosque resonates with harsh American voices arguing over a body- was he dead, was he alive? I watched, tense, wondering what they would do- I expected the usual Marines treatment- that a heavy, booted foot would kick the man perhaps to see if he groaned. But it didn't work that way- the crack of gunfire suddenly explodes in the mosque as the Marine fires at the seemingly dead man and then come the words, "He's dead now."
"He's dead now." He said it calmly, matter-of-factly, in a sort of sing-song voice that made my blood run cold… and the Marines around him didn't care. They just roamed around the mosque and began to drag around the corpses because, apparently, this was nothing to them. This was probably a commonplace incident.
We sat, horrified, stunned with the horror of the scene that unfolded in front of our eyes. It's the third day of Eid and we were finally able to gather as a family- a cousin, his wife and their two daughters, two aunts, and an elderly uncle. E. and my cousin had been standing in line for two days to get fuel so we could go visit the elderly uncle on the final day of a very desolate Eid. The room was silent at the end of the scene, with only the voice of the news anchor and the sobs of my aunt. My little cousin flinched and dropped her spoon, face frozen with shock, eyes wide with disbelief, glued to the television screen, "Is he dead? Did they kill him?" I swallowed hard, trying to gulp away the lump lodged in my throat and watched as my cousin buried his face in his hands, ashamed to look at his daughter.
"What was I supposed to tell them?" He asked, an hour later, after we had sent his two daughters to help their grandmother in the kitchen. "What am I supposed to tell them- 'Yes darling, they killed him- the Americans killed a wounded man; they are occupying our country, killing people and we are sitting here eating, drinking and watching tv'?" He shook his head, "How much more do they have to see? What is left for them to see?"
They killed a wounded man. It's hard to believe. They killed a man who was completely helpless- like he was some sort of diseased animal. I had read the articles and heard the stories of this happening before- wounded civilians being thrown on the side of the road or shot in cold blood- but to see it happening on television is something else- it makes me crazy with anger.
And what will happen now? A criminal investigation against a single Marine who did the shooting? Just like what happened with the Abu Ghraib atrocities? A couple of people will be blamed and the whole thing will be buried under the rubble of idiotic military psychologists, defense analysts, Pentagon officials and spokespeople and it will be forgotten. In the end, all anyone will remember is that a single Marine shot and killed a single Iraqi 'insurgent' and it won't matter anymore.
It's typical American technique- every single atrocity is lost and covered up by blaming a specific person and getting it over with. What people don't understand is that the whole military is infested with these psychopaths. In this last year we've seen murderers, torturers and xenophobes running around in tanks and guns. I don't care what does it: I don't care if it's the tension, the fear, the 'enemy'… it's murder. We are occupied by murderers. We're under the same pressure, as Iraqis, except that we weren't trained for this situation, and yet we're all expected to be benevolent and understanding and, above all, grateful. I'm feeling sick, depressed and frightened. I don't know what to say anymore… they aren't humans and they don't deserve any compassion.
So why is the world so obsessed with beheadings? How is this so very different? The difference is that the people who are doing the beheadings are extremists… the people slaughtering Iraqis- torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners- are "American Heroes". Congratulations, you must be so proud of yourselves today.
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 15:17 Post subject:
After reading that go, I'm just about reached the conclusion that we shouldn't embed media members into our military troops during wartime. It's dangerous for one. Extends our military unnecessarily for two. And just like previous history - It will be eventually used against American military interests.
P.S. How about some of those same dead terrorists lobbying bombs from those wonderful mosques?
|
|
|
|
|
robp
Pyromaniac
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16242
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 15:20 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
|
Pug
The Movie Geek
|
|
|
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 8924
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 15:23 Post subject:
What we don't know is what the Rules of Engagement were for that soldier when he was out in the field. Were the ROE for only if the Iraqi has a weapon visible or if he could be percieved as a threat?
|
|
|
|
|
Gogirlgo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 16:19 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
Yes, what really irks me is the double standard in this country. Those savages are over there doing this just as Sonny mentions....and worse....to our soldiers every day (I heard the same thing this morning, btw, about the playing dead thing) and yet as soon as one of our own plays by THEIR rules, it's a problem. |
We're bound by treaties and conventions not to do it. End of story.
|
|
|
|
|
Cappy
Excelent
|
|
|
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 16:23 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
We're bound by treaties and conventions not to do it. End of story. |
I agree, and should this Marine be found guilty he will/should be punished.
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 11/16/04 - 16:32 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | We're bound by treaties and conventions not to do it. End of story. |
I'm not excusing any type of misconduct... But I do not think the Geneva Rules apply to non-uniformed, armed combantants.
|
|
|
|
| |
All times are GMT - 4 Hours
|
|
|
