Public school testing in your state?
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bburgoyne26
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 Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:15 Post subject: Public school testing in your state?
I would imagine almost all states have some form of competency testing in the public schools. Does each grade level have certain tests they take every year or on some other schedule?......What type of testing do they have for the various levels of special ed students?.....Does this cause problems for your own kids, such as anxiety or just boredom with repeated drills for the test, etc?......How is the No Child Left Behind act going to play into this testing in your area?
Any other thoughts or comments?
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:20 Post subject:
3rd 5th 8th and 11th grade students take the test. there is no way to opt out of it, all students, including special needs students take the test without accommodations. this has put incredible pressure on the students and the teachers, esp. at those grade levels.
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elkid
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:32 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | 3rd 5th 8th and 11th grade students take the test. there is no way to opt out of it, all students, including special needs students take the test without accommodations. this has put incredible pressure on the students and the teachers, esp. at those grade levels. |
The sad, pathetic legacy of NCLB. Teaching to the test has become the norm, at the sacrifice of curriculum. Note that these tests really have no real barometer for testing competency, however. I know of several districts around here that will force students to leave their schools for "alternative" ones just to bump up their test scores.
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jrjo
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:40 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | Teaching to the test has become the norm, at the sacrifice of curriculum. |
It'd be interesting among the handful of teachers on the site here, what kind of percentage of their co-workers they figure do this? Majority? Minority? Themselves?
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Sahara
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:42 Post subject:
My district is teaching to the test and it frickin sucks... incredible pressure on the kids at school as they prep and prep and prep. It is diffused at home, hopefully.
My kids follow the testing at the grade levels that keltic mentioned. Last year I had a 3rd & a 5th grader. This year they are both learning a lot more already because they are not using the same test format at those standardized tests... they are being taught to be critical thinkers in many of their subject areas... I love it by comparision. It reaffirms how bright my children really are; didn't get that last year.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:47 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: |
It'd be interesting among the handful of teachers on the site here, what kind of percentage of their co-workers they figure do this? Majority? Minority? Themselves? |
if they are in PA and teaching at the levels I mentioned, they are indeed teaching to the test. Our jobs, funding, everything depends on this test (the way PA has implemented NCLB). We are even responsible for attendance.....if we fall below a certain percentage, our school can be placed on "School Improvement" and any combination of low test scores and unsatisfactory attendance could eventually mean that the state takes over the district and all teachers lose their jobs. (btw, unsatisfactory attendance could mean 93% if last year's percentage was 94%)
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megawill
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 12:56 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: |
if they are in PA and teaching at the levels I mentioned, they are indeed teaching to the test. Our jobs, funding, everything depends on this test (the way PA has implemented NCLB). We are even responsible for attendance.....if we fall below a certain percentage, our school can be placed on "School Improvement" and any combination of low test scores and unsatisfactory attendance could eventually mean that the state takes over the district and all teachers lose their jobs. (btw, unsatisfactory attendance could mean 93% if last year's percentage was 94%) |
all that federal oversight, hmm, doesn't sound very 'conservative' to me...
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elkid
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:01 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | It'd be interesting among the handful of teachers on the site here, what kind of percentage of their co-workers they figure do this? Majority? Minority? Themselves? |
I did a lot of research on this very topic for a class (online, at schoolboard meetings, and copious teacher interviews in grades 3-12) and was appalled at the local numbers. Almost made me want to abandon my idea of going into public school teaching even. In my tri county area (Philadelphia, Montgomery, Bucks) the average time spent on teaching to the test was 3 months. Imagine being told by the state that you have x number of things to cover based on the standards of your subject, then being told you have to prep your students for a test so that the school will receive funds out of the paltry 49% the federal government feeds to the NCLB initiative. (It's a federal law, but they don't fund it fully? Talk about crap!) You have a lot of stuff to cover, but 3 less months in which to cover it. Add in the nightmares of bigger class sizes, inclusion/mainstreaming policies, and 504s and IEPs and it's amazing a kid learns anything these days. The pressure (educationally, mentally, legislatively) on teachers in public schools today is unreal.
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team1
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:11 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: | | all that federal oversight, hmm, doesn't sound very 'conservative' to me... |
It's 'liberal' enough that both parties probably made it law...
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rolling rock
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:18 Post subject:
i have a 5th and 11th grader so that would make this my lucky year.
i know the 5th grader feels she is being taught to the test...in fact today she is taking a math prep test for story problems that had her in tears last night. the pressure on teachers in elementary schools is very real and believe me, it trickles right down to the children.
it is really an open for discussion matter in the classroom too, which surprises me. in 3rd grade, she was given a packet of materials 3 months before the "test" week and parents were urged to review and drill the material at home. i can't see how this is an accurate indication of a district's performance; it's not exactly unrehearsed.
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megawill
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:18 Post subject:
| team1 wrote: | | It's 'liberal' enough that both parties probably made it law... |
unmask yourself, Penguin!
liberal or conservative....it is a terrible law, funded or unfunded....
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:28 Post subject:
Observation # 1: The people that want to drive any type of accountability from public teachers is simply amazing to me.
Observation # 2: We spend more money per student than all other Industrialized Nations and we get far worse results.
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elkid
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:39 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Observation # 1: The people that want to drive any type of accountability from public teachers is simply amazing to me. |
For those outside of the system, it's difficult to understand. I'll try to break it down.
504s - you are given a piece of paper written up by a lawyer who lacks an educational background that says you MUST do specific things for Johnny Student, but do them in a manner so that the other students don't know Johnny Student is being treated differently. Johnny can in some cases get up and leave class unannounced, because he feels like it. Try explaining that to your class. Note that if you fail to comply with this agreement, which again was thrust upon you and you have no option to disagree with it, you are fired. Plain and simple.
Labels - parents know that if a kid receives a label like ADHD they are entitled to special services, FREE. Many parents refuse to believe that their own lack of involvement is a problem or that a child's incapacity to get good grades may simply be because their child isn't smart enough, so they seek labels. Many school districts force these children into a classroom, which is disruptive.
Special ed - gone are the days where these children were segregated from the rest. It's more about inclusion and mainstreaming, so they sit in classes with "regular" kids. More often than not, the number of special ed students is kept just under the legal limit where an aide or helper is required. For example, if you have 6 or more special ed students in your class you are entitled to an aide or helper, but many districts put in 5 so you're on your own. If a teacher did not specialize in special ed, this is a huge problem and is a huge disservice to the rest of the class.
I could go on forever. My father was a public school teacher, middle and high school, for 38 years. I will be a public school teacher as well. I know the system, I know how it works, and how it doesn't work. It's a calling, so those who are and who will become teachers still do it for various reasons. True, there are some lazy teachers out there, and teachers do share a portion of accountability for a student's success. But to generalize that a student's failure to learn is solely a teacher's fault is erroneous. Especially if you do not have children and are not part of the system. There are so many external factors thrust on a teacher that real education and curriculum are often sacrificed.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 13:57 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Observation # 1: The people that want to drive any type of accountability from public teachers is simply amazing to me. |
my principal just told me about a home visit she made this morning. the students in question live like this: mom is a drug addict and mentally deficient. dad is an alcoholic and physically abusive. grandma lives with them and all 3 are chain smokers. dad was in prison for 3 years, and during that time, mom got a new boyfriend who physically and sexually abused the 2 boys (mom was tied to a chair so she couldn't intervene). that boyfriend was convicted and jailed, dad got out of prison, is back with this 'family" again, and he regularly beats his wife, the youngest child was removed from the home, but the boys remain. they hear the beatings, see the drug abuse, and try to control their own behavior while at school. The family has regular visits from 5 different social service agencies.
you're right sonnylax, we teachers in the public schools aren't doing enough; anyone can see that a teacher who is in charge of this kid for 6.5 hours everyday should be able to have a lot more influence on these kids.
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RexRacer
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 14:00 Post subject:
OK, Public School teachers (and 'would-be' teachers):
What works better? What are the solutions?
I agree, btw, about the teach to the test crap. I know that both from good friends who are in the schools and my own Goette Une, who came home last week or so telling us that they were starting to practice for this test now, and I don't even think its offered for a few months.
Honestly, I don't know how you teachers do it. The differences our pal detailed for me over the last few years as compared to her earlier teaching days were so vast, I don't know how she keeps going. Sometimes I think she doesn't either.
No creativity, no diversity, no individual input at all.
And to top it off, many of these marginal schools have turnover rates of 25% or more throughout the year. I compare that to my day when someone who moved to the neighborhood in third grade was still known as 'the new kid' in high school.
So a teacher (and a school) is at the mercy of the student's previous academic experience. They get shipped in a month before the testing period and whatever score they get on the test is no reflection at all of that teacher's or school's pedagogical skills.
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