Public school testing in your state?
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megawill
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 Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:06 Post subject:
| kristin31 wrote: |
Exactly. I was fortunate enough to go to good schools and I remember my favorite teachers. However, my parents also checked our homework religiously and quizzed us before tests, went over spelling words, etc while we were in grade school and in fact before (both my sister and I were reading in kidnergarten or before). They were very much involved with our education at an early age. |
if you will allow me a little leeway on the sarcasm front, i'd like to make a point...on to the 'accountability' proponents...
So maybe for the taxpayer's convenience we should search for a way to 'quantify' the effectiveness of parents, no? and if they don't hold the muster let's get them 'chillins into somebody's hands that can do the job...
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kristin31
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:19 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: |
if you will allow me a little leeway on the sarcasm front, i'd like to make a point...on to the 'accountability' proponents...
So maybe for the taxpayer's convenience we should search for a way to 'quantify' the effectiveness of parents, no? and if they don't hold the muster let's get them 'chillins into somebody's hands that can do the job... |
OK. I didn't mean to imply that and I see what you're getting at I think (removing kids from one home and dumping them in another). I guess I was just stating that in some ways we (my sister and I) got lucky. As I recall, at the time I sure didn't think so. I would have preferred anything over "extra" homework.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:21 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: |
if you will allow me a little leeway on the sarcasm front, i'd like to make a point...on to the 'accountability' proponents...
So maybe for the taxpayer's convenience we should search for a way to 'quantify' the effectiveness of parents, no? and if they don't hold the muster let's get them 'chillins into somebody's hands that can do the job... |
Absolutely -- If you bring children into this world that you cannot care/provide for - they should be removed from your custody.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:24 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Absolutely -- If you bring children into this world that you cannot care/provide for - they should be removed from your custody. |
What would your definition of "care/provide for" include?
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:29 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Absolutely -- If you bring children into this world that you cannot care/provide for - they should be removed from your custody. |
That's for sure....it takes a lot to get removed though....as frustrating as working in the public schools can be, I can't even imagine being a caseworker for Childrens Protective Services.....
And those foster kids are really a challenge in the schools too. They can get moved overnight for their protection, but they change schools and often don't have their records so you don't know what special programs they have been in, they may change curriculums when they change schools, so they are never in the same place or book that the class is in....so they may change reading or math methods in the process....I really feel sad when I hear all the history of my foster kids and what they've been through...it really wears on you...and they get moved from home to home and often don't get adopted as they get older....
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megawill
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:31 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Absolutely -- If you bring children into this world that you cannot care/provide for - they should be removed from your custody. |
doesn't seem consistent with a libertarian approach to gov't to me...
sounds more like communist china...but i suppose that is off topic, although interesting none the less...
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:40 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: |
doesn't seem consistent with a libertarian approach to gov't to me...
sounds more like communist china...but i suppose that is off topic, although interesting none the less... |
When they can't provide for themselves and must rely on taxpayers assistance - they (IMHO) they lose the right to call all the "shots."
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megawill
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 17:53 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
When they can't provide for themselves and must rely on taxpayers assistance - they (IMHO) they lose the right to call all the "shots." |
so you get to call the shots for them?
see what i don't understand...and i'm trying not to make this personal, so if it comes off that way i apologize up front...is what i see from so many conservatives, free-market types, etc. is that while they preach for less government, what they are really pushing for is a government that espouses their own personal interest and as long as the government yields its rusty arm to better that interest than government intervention is not only okay it is what is called for...i can't tell you how much that frustrates many of us in the 49%...and i can't tell you without getting this thing locked how i truly view your personal approach to the situation we are discussing in this thread...
(and who will hold the accounters - accountable???)
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 18:06 Post subject:
| kristin31 wrote: |
Exactly. I was fortunate enough to go to good schools and I remember my favorite teachers. However, my parents also checked our homework religiously and quizzed us before tests, went over spelling words, etc while we were in grade school and in fact before (both my sister and I were reading in kidnergarten or before). They were very much involved with our education at an early age. |
well....my parents were NOT. Thank goodness that teachers had time to teach me to read and write, because if it were up to my parents, it wouldn't have happened.
I saw HUGE progress with my son with a teacher that believed in very little homework. (15 minutes or less)....she said she worked those kids hard in the classroom and the parents and kids homework each night was to have fun with each other and play. Guess what? it means less grading for her too. She was able to track progress of children on her own (more power to the teacher). She said many of children were having parents TOO involved with homework projects and it's easier for her to determine deficiencies.
Instead all these programs, I really think we'd see better progress if we spent our money to make classrooms a more manageable size and let teachers teach. All these programs don't give enough credit to the knowledge and experience of teachers. A good teacher can spot problem areas in a child, in a smaller sized room they can actually do something about it.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 18:59 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: |
so you get to call the shots for them?
see what i don't understand...and i'm trying not to make this personal, so if it comes off that way i apologize up front...is what i see from so many conservatives, free-market types, etc. is that while they preach for less government, what they are really pushing for is a government that espouses their own personal interest and as long as the government yields its rusty arm to better that interest than government intervention is not only okay it is what is called for...i can't tell you how much that frustrates many of us in the 49%...and i can't tell you without getting this thing locked how i truly view your personal approach to the situation we are discussing in this thread...
(and who will hold the accounters - accountable???) |
Nope. I'm all for less govt and I have NO desire to dictate to other law abiding citizens who fend for themselves. But when I have to open my wallet to support your poor life decisions, that's where I draw the line. There is an important distinction in there.
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Noley
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 23:14 Post subject:
I've seen testing in all of the states I've lived in.
Been "tied" and held accountable to those tests as well...even in the current one I live in. So much for freedom to explore and teach for the enjoyment at times.
That's all I'll say about this issue. I have a job. I try my best to make learning for my students fun. I try to not stress them out about testing. Come spring, I guess that's all it's about. It reminds me of the good old days and Proficiency Tests in Ohio that I was strapped to.
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megawill
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 23:30 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Nope. I'm all for less govt and I have NO desire to dictate to other law abiding citizens who fend for themselves. But when I have to open my wallet to support your poor life decisions, that's where I draw the line. There is an important distinction in there. |
Well i'm reading something else between the lines here then....
but i'm done with this, my words as well as yours are both here for others to look and decide...
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phillycat
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Posted: 11/11/04 - 09:26 Post subject:
Both of my parents were teachers and my sister and BIL both teach at the high school that my brother and sisters went to and the topic of parent responsibility comes up often especially when talking with my sister and BIL. The high school that they work at is like many, over crowed and full of children who come from less than steller homes. There are many issues in regards to weapons being brought to school and gang fights. When my sister was pregnant with my nephew she had two students that gave birth right around the same time. One of her students lived with her family in an abandoned dentist's office and witnessed her mother getting shot and killed. This is what many teachers have to deal with where I come from.
With all of this going on, you would think that the parents just don't care....well the funny thing, is that they do, but not in the way that you would think. They are constantly putting pressure on my sister and BIL to take more responsibility for the actions of their child. They feel that teachers should be taking more of a role in their child's life however they don't seem to understand that much of that responsibility should be their own to bear.
I agree with many who have commented that those who can't take responsibility shouldn't be having children, however that's not reality and I don't see it getting any better in the near future.
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elkid
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Posted: 11/11/04 - 10:05 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | They are constantly putting pressure on my sister and BIL to take more responsibility for the actions of their child. They feel that teachers should be taking more of a role in their child's life however they don't seem to understand that much of that responsibility should be their own to bear. |
Aye, there's the rub. Though this is hardly restricted to the at need communities. I know plenty of two income households where the kids are either latchkey or are in afterschool programs because Mom and Dad are off working and can't parent them until say 6, 7pm. Character building aside, a parent is a child's first teacher. A parent should not expect someone else to do their job in terms of childrearing, discipline, and teaching them manners. A school is an institution of academia, yet it has also become a parental substitute. Sorry, if you can't teach your child how to act around and speak with others, how to conduct themselves in a respectful manner, and work with them to better their education, you have no right being a parent. You create a child, you are responsible to and for him/her - plain and simple.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/11/04 - 10:09 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | I agree with many who have commented that those who can't take responsibility shouldn't be having children, however that's not reality and I don't see it getting any better in the near future. |
Take that one step further pc. Why do we reward those on govt. benefits with additional support when they bear more children they cannot care for? Doesn't that seem counterintuitive to you?
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