Public school testing in your state?
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MastrBrewr
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 Posted: 11/10/04 - 14:02 Post subject:
I work for the State Board of Education here in NC. The term 'Highly Qualified' has caused more arguments, headaches, resignations, firings, smoke breaks, etc than you could imagine.
The general concensus here (and at the school district level) is that while the spirit of NCLB is great, the baggage that come with it is deconstructive to resources that would've been better put to use education kids.
There's a joke often heard that the motto of NCLB is 'We've upped our standards. Now Up Yours!'
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 14:38 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | you're right sonnylax, we teachers in the public schools aren't doing enough; anyone can see that a teacher who is in charge of this kid for 6.5 hours everyday should be able to have a lot more influence on these kids. |
Please don't misunderstand me keltic or put words in my mouth - All I'm saying is that public education is not different then an other endeavor. There has to be some way to quantify the education process. If you have a suggestion as to how to quantify the process, I'm all ears.
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robp
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:00 Post subject:
Since the testing is still basically in it's infancy there is no doubt that there is room for improvement. Very few, if any, programs of this magnitude are put into place without major headaches and learning curves. It's a start even though it may be floundering. An organized method for bringing about change utilizing imput from teachers, administrators, parents and the students themselves would be a good way to start. Is there even a forum available for people to voice their concerns?
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elkid
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:03 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | Is there even a forum available for people to voice their concerns? |
Yes. Called school board meetings.
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keltic63
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:06 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Please don't misunderstand me keltic or put words in my mouth - All I'm saying is that public education is not different then an other endeavor. There has to be some way to quantify the education process. If you have a suggestion as to how to quantify the process, I'm all ears. |
We've got to be allowed to teach without the constant disruptions that occur because of the current laws. In any given class period the following events are not only a possibility, but most happen, and usually in some succession: classroom arrives early or late; learning support students arrive late; emotional support arrives even later and student (with poor social skills) walks right up to me and shoves behavior slip in my face; personal aids (for students with various needs) decide they need to go to the restroom; aid returns; office makes general announcement; office calls to my room to find student for early dismissal.
Now add to all of that, the ways that administration can find loopholes to the laws, or slip under in ways that elkid has mentioned.
There is plenty of reliable research that says class size is an important factor in the education of students. My district has me teaching several classes that are well over 25 students, and as many as 30 students in the room.
You need to hear me as well, sonnylax, while I am upset with a few teachers in this district that do not do the job they were hired to do, I am more upset with administration that expects us to do a job, then makes it nearly impossible to meet those standards.
should we also talk about the responsibility of the parents?
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:09 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
Yes. Called school board meetings. |
True.....at a local level....but somehow the bigshots in the legislature need to hear about it too, at both state and national levels....the local school districts are pretty much powerless at this point, we gotta do what we're told to do....
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megawill
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:09 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
There has to be some way to quantify the education process. |
why?
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elkid
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:14 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | should we also talk about the responsibility of the parents? |
Now you've done it. FLAME ON!
Question for you, keltic: how many parents did you have meet you at Back to School Night? coach had NONE. Not uncommon at all.
| bburgoyne26 wrote: | | True.....at a local level....but somehow the bigshots in the legislature need to hear about it too, at both state and national levels. |
I believe that's why we elect state and national representatives. To communicate the issues of the locals on up. You can even write to or email these representatives as an individual to get your voice heard.
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:39 Post subject:
That's an interesting question!
Used to be, we would take one of those large group achievement tests, like the Iowa or Stanford and we would get standardized results about where we were on the bell curve...grade levels, percentiles and such....our teachers and parents would get the results and we knew that the lower achieving kids needed some extra help......then somewhere along the way, in Texas anyways, in the 80's minimum competency testing became the big thing. The goal was just to get everybody above the minimum. All the tests were specific to the grade level you were in. Now the goal is to get everybody over the minimum hump.....now that's another whole topic!....or is it?....the whole accountability issue seems to be that everybody learns the basics, uniform mediocrity....we can't accept the wide range of talents and weaknesses.....I actually think a lot of bright kids are getting the shaft and the below average kids are getting a lot of pressure....the vocational programs have really declined over the years.....not everybody can or should go to college, we need more basic vocational training for the kids who just can't do college.....
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:47 Post subject:
Bottom line....NCLB is not a bad "idea".....but it is a big government plan without funding......and takes an incredible amount of manhours just for documentation.....if a kid is not up to grade level, he/she needs some small group tutoring...it's that simple....but!....where does the money for tutors come from, and where is the physical space available for small groups of remedial kids?
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sonnylax
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 15:55 Post subject:
Because we (the good ole US taxpayers) continue to spend billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars on a system where some kids can't even read & write.
Govt. does many things very poorly. Why we would leave them to educate our children, en mass, is beyond me. 
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 16:01 Post subject:
What does it say when basic things like spelling have to be snuck in? The current curriculum of Philly's school district doesn't allow for spelling. You remember those tests, on Fridays, when you'd learned 8 or 10 new words, how to spell them, what they meant? A thing of the past.
I don't mind doing it at home b/c spelling is particularly important to me, as some of you know. But that is something I ought to be able to count on from the schools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on the teachers, I have a lot of respect for them. I think they're between a rock and a hard place. If we're going to insist on these tests as the definer of whether a school gets money so that a pupil can be decently taught, why don't we value foundational education in the curriculum in the first place?
And if a kid goes to a school that doesn't do well on the tests, and that school gets less money, should the kid switch schools? Should the state fund that switch?
Does no one else realize that this is all being done on the backs of the kids? Even if you don't have kids, if you live in a community, it's to your advantage to have it be well-educated, if for no other reason than your getting the correct change back from a cashier.
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jrjo
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 16:20 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | | should we also talk about the responsibility of the parents? |
Absolutely!! Education should be no different than food, clothing and shelter. It's a parental priority one. If your kid can't spell, read, do math, you as a parent should teach them. I can hardly think of a more important thing. Pointing fingers won't solve anything. Bottomline is we as parents have the task of raising a child.
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kristin31
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 16:39 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | Absolutely!! Education should be no different than food, clothing and shelter. It's a parental priority one. If your kid can't spell, read, do math, you as a parent should teach them. I can hardly think of a more important thing. Pointing fingers won't solve anything. Bottomline is we as parents have the task of raising a child. |
Exactly. I was fortunate enough to go to good schools and I remember my favorite teachers. However, my parents also checked our homework religiously and quizzed us before tests, went over spelling words, etc while we were in grade school and in fact before (both my sister and I were reading in kidnergarten or before). They were very much involved with our education at an early age.
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keltic63
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Posted: 11/10/04 - 16:58 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | Absolutely!! Education should be no different than food, clothing and shelter. It's a parental priority one. If your kid can't spell, read, do math, you as a parent should teach them. I can hardly think of a more important thing. Pointing fingers won't solve anything. Bottomline is we as parents have the task of raising a child. |
the state of PA has chosen to ignore that part of the equation. teachers in PA are now required to complete 180 hours of continuing education every 5 years. School districts are running around in circles to get these students to score well on the tests. PA added the requirement that schools had to have not only a high attendance average, but an ever-improving one. So it became the responsibility of the schools to do the job of the parents. And if we say that there are truancy laws that should be enforced, then we end up fining people who do not pay the fines anyway.
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