Poll not poll: thoughts on
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Gogirlgo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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 Posted: 12/01/03 - 16:21 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | Ok, so childbirth and pregnancy shouldn't be covered, because it's a choice. Got it. Should then abortion be covered, you know, to help people...make that choice? |
This has nothing to do with abortion, so attempting to shift the argument to something else doesn't work. And no abortion should be covered by health care insurance either. |
I'm not shifting anything. I'm saying your argument is illogical b/c if you're saying pregnancy/childbirth is a choice, then by definition you're also saying there's another choice. (When there's only one choice, it's not a choice. It's a mandate.)
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elkid
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 16:27 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | Ok, so childbirth and pregnancy shouldn't be covered, because it's a choice. Got it. Should then abortion be covered, you know, to help people...make that choice? |
This has nothing to do with abortion, so attempting to shift the argument to something else doesn't work. And no abortion should be covered by health care insurance either. |
I'm not shifting anything. I'm saying your argument is illogical b/c if you're saying pregnancy/childbirth is a choice, then by definition you're also saying there's another choice. (When there's only one choice, it's not a choice. It's a mandate.) |
I think by "choice" he meant that if you choose to have sex and get pregnant (with or without the use of birth control), you've still made a choice.
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Sahara
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 16:43 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | Sahara wrote: | | I think I'm a socialist at heart. I say let the insurance company cover it if it is, in fact, a medical issue... snd that decision is best made between PATIENT AND DOCTOR. |
Sahara---hope you are kidding because the docs would say that 'everything' is medically necessary. Been there...done that.....oh so many, many times. This discussion brings back the good 'ol days to me.
Picture this: I'm a mean underwriter and hubby is a resident doctor. Very heated discussions regarding me not issuing insurance to people
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I'm not kidding at all. I'm not saying that we should be shepherded by doctors. I say that patient and doctor dsicuss and agree upon a course. I acknowledge that some patients don't take an active part in their health decisions (what to do, what not to do, research into proposed procedures, prescriptions, ...) ; insurance coverage likely will not influence them to take a more active part.
I respectfully disagree. Not all doctors are hell-bent on performing so-called "medically necessary" procedures. In my experience, I've come across more that realists and discuss with me the options. This was especially true for end-of-life issues balancing with quality-of-life issues with my grandmother.
As I reread your post, I wonder if your point is that insurance companies won't agree to whatever doctor & patient decide. If so, with the status quo, I totally agree with you on that.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 20:21 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: |
I think by "choice" he meant that if you choose to have sex and get pregnant (with or without the use of birth control), you've still made a choice. |
bingo! Everything is about accountability and too many folks in our society today don't do enough to take control of their own lifes.
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Cappy
Excelent
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 20:40 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | is about accountability and too many folks in our society today don't do enough to take control of their own lifes.
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Now this I agree with you on. Too many people resort to litigation and pass the blame for thier own actions on someone else.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 20:45 Post subject:
| Sahara wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | | Sahara wrote: | | I think I'm a socialist at heart. I say let the insurance company cover it if it is, in fact, a medical issue... snd that decision is best made between PATIENT AND DOCTOR. |
Sahara---hope you are kidding because the docs would say that 'everything' is medically necessary. Been there...done that.....oh so many, many times. This discussion brings back the good 'ol days to me.
Picture this: I'm a mean underwriter and hubby is a resident doctor. Very heated discussions regarding me not issuing insurance to people
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I'm not kidding at all. I'm not saying that we should be shepherded by doctors. I say that patient and doctor dsicuss and agree upon a course. I acknowledge that some patients don't take an active part in their health decisions (what to do, what not to do, research into proposed procedures, prescriptions, ...) ; insurance coverage likely will not influence them to take a more active part.
I respectfully disagree. Not all doctors are hell-bent on performing so-called "medically necessary" procedures. In my experience, I've come across more that realists and discuss with me the options. This was especially true for end-of-life issues balancing with quality-of-life issues with my grandmother.
As I reread your post, I wonder if your point is that insurance companies won't agree to whatever doctor & patient decide. If so, with the status quo, I totally agree with you on that. |
Sahara,
I agree that not all doctors want to perform surgeries, but alot of decisions that doctors make are driven by money and risk---where insurance companies are driven by cost effectiveness.
I spent alot of time working for one and now spend alot of time socializing with the other and both parties are essentially driven by greed. Now some doctors may NOT be gung ho about surgeries......but, are they employees of the hospital where they are salaried or contracted by the hospital for a fee for service? I guarantee the later will perform more surgeries and deem them as "necessary". They will also be very willing to call an elective surgery "medically necessary".
After awhile insurance companies will get wise. BCP can be deemed "medically necessary" by the doctor and in all actually the patient just doesn't want to get pregnant. The claims come in for "hormone imbalance" to "zits".
It's all about money...let's work in the drug company into the picture. Ever wonder how come certain doctors prescribe certain drugs???
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 22:45 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | So what are you saying. Pregnancy and childbirth shouldn't covered because its a choice, that's such a crock. Some people use insurance more than others, and they should pay more, not covering a valid medical procedure because it doesn't suit your life style doesn't justify not covering it at all. You're making a weak argument. |
Childbirth is not an illness or an accident that health care insurance was originally intended to cover. End of argument. Why should I have to pay for someone else's lifestyle choice? Furthermore, if less folks used insurance, then companies and insurers could pay more in benefits. No one gets a free lunch.. the money to cover additional procedures is coming from somewhere. |
sonnylax - do you think preventative care (vaccines, annual exams, smoking cessation programs, etc.) should be covered?
Also, should the newborn be allowed to be covered on the policy since they were a "life-style choic"?
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 23:25 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | Cappy wrote: | | So what are you saying. Pregnancy and childbirth shouldn't covered because its a choice, that's such a crock. Some people use insurance more than others, and they should pay more, not covering a valid medical procedure because it doesn't suit your life style doesn't justify not covering it at all. You're making a weak argument. |
Childbirth is not an illness or an accident that health care insurance was originally intended to cover. End of argument. Why should I have to pay for someone else's lifestyle choice? Furthermore, if less folks used insurance, then companies and insurers could pay more in benefits. No one gets a free lunch.. the money to cover additional procedures is coming from somewhere. |
sonnylax - do you think preventative care (vaccines, annual exams, smoking cessation programs, etc.) should be covered?
Also, should the newborn be allowed to be covered on the policy since they were a "life-style choic"? |
good question. I guess when mom and baby show up...the birthing part and mom's stay should not be covered....but baby's care once out of the canal...covered. But with more and more babies staying in the room with moms rather than the nursery......could be difficult to separate the charges out.
I remember back in the old days when insurance companies could rider (refuse to pay something upfront before the policy goes in effect), we'd just say we aren't going to cover childbirth......problem was that c-sections weren't considered childbirth, but necessary surgery and thus covered.
sonnylax---
insurance is about spreading the risk. If everyone used benefits in an equal manner why would an employer need to offer any benefit package? Why not provide a catastrophic plan for unsuspected events and everyone pay for their own known problems?
and yes, 99+% of time pregnancy is a choice..(rape is not...but we don't need to get into that)....I have no idea how many are planned...but sure that it is less than 99%.....but you are saying it is a life style choice (you're having sex afterall) and should not be covered.
I choose to run.....if I slip on the ice tomorrow and break my tailbone....should that be covered???? Afterall, it was my choice to run in a blizzard in the dark.
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copteacher
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Joined: 08 Jun 2002
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Location: Teaching in the Halls of Justice
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Posted: 12/01/03 - 23:36 Post subject:
So should older people pay more in premiums a' la car insurance.?
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