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sonnylax
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 Posted: 01/21/04 - 15:56 Post subject:
Taking it one step further genie is W's spending habits. He is spending tax dollars like a druken sailor that hasn't been to port in 2 years! W has failed to veto one single spending bill over the last three years. He is just as bad as some of those on the left of the aisle (with regard to spending).
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:02 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | Then what was your point?
You were the one comparing taxes (individuals vs. corporations). Here is your direct quote:
| Quote: | If everyone paid the same percentage in taxes, including large corporations, there would not likely be all of the discussion and argument about taxes. Sure, taxes suck, but if a large company can pay a smaller percentage of taxes than i do....that's not right.
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Who's complaining? It was a comment in refernce to RunTexas's post about leaving our taxes alone. I was suggesting that if everyone was actually taxed equally, including corporations, we probably wouldn't have to have the issue of who gets taxed what and whose hands shouldn't be touching my money because there would likely be a much greater total of tax money being recieved by the U.S. government. Instead, we can have billion dollar companies who have found loopholes and exemptions so that they do not have to pay taxes.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:03 Post subject:
Genie: very good of you to make the comment about keeping religion out of government.
Great speech last night, if the goal was to mobilize Dems to get him the hell out of there.
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copteacher
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:08 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | Great speech last night, if the goal was to mobilize Dems to get him the hell out of there. |
like that will happen.
Come on. The dems are saying they want to "roll back" the taxes the GWB put in place. Okay so what they really mean is let's raise taxes in an economy that is on fire. Come on the libs just do not get it.
how will it mobilize exactly. To what point will the dems rally...hey let's raise taxes, let's let the UN tell us what to do...okay, the dems need to listen to the American public once in a while.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:12 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | Then what was your point?
You were the one comparing taxes (individuals vs. corporations). Here is your direct quote:
| Quote: | If everyone paid the same percentage in taxes, including large corporations, there would not likely be all of the discussion and argument about taxes. Sure, taxes suck, but if a large company can pay a smaller percentage of taxes than i do....that's not right.
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Who's complaining? It was a comment in refernce to RunTexas's post about leaving our taxes alone. I was suggesting that if everyone was actually taxed equally, including corporations, we probably wouldn't have to have the issue of who gets taxed what and whose hands shouldn't be touching my money because there would likely be a much greater total of tax money being recieved by the U.S. government. Instead, we can have billion dollar companies who have found loopholes and exemptions so that they do not have to pay taxes. |
I like this idea. Pug for pres.
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Maddies Wench
Flailing Homosapiens
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 6103
Location: Seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go.
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:13 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
The NEA is what's killing education, and nothing else. That organization has done more harm than good almost since its inception. NCLB sounds good on paper but it isn't practical....but the premise needs to be worked on because our educational system needs a damn complete overhaul. There is no reason why kids should be graduating from high school still unable to read.
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Or to throw money at a child who WILL NEVER READ. Honestly, wouldn't a Title One aide be better used with a child who is a little behind than the one who can't even potty by herself? This sounds callous and unfeeling but it isn't, really. We need to be realistic with the services and funds.
It's a NCLB is a federal mandate, but not federally funded. Therefore, a school district is forced to bear the costs of services and funds. Luckily, the interventions Ian needs don't cost a cent, or I would feel hella guilty.
In addition, teachers are forced to pass kids who are borderline MR with A's and B's while there are bright kids who bust a$$ and get C's.
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Sahara
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:17 Post subject:
| RunTexas wrote: |
I am well traveled, I read more than anyone you'll ever meet and I have a family member that is a lesbian. |
Hey now, if you want to have people draw sides, this is one that I'd place a bet on the side of Pug. 
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elkid
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:21 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | The NEA is what's killing education, and nothing else. That organization has done more harm than good almost since its inception.
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No organization is without fault of action. I disagree that the NEA is killing education, as the bulk of its member base is comprised of educators. My father was a member of NJEA for nearly 40 years, so I know what they did very well. There's a lot that the members wanted to be done, that was needed to be done, that just couldn't be done (can we say LACK OF STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDING?). That said, I still would much rather discuss educational policy with people who are in the trenches, however flawed, than with the politicians who enforce NCLB. NCLB does nothing but teach to the test, and that isn't sound learning. It's not learning at all. Those standardized tests are trophies for the districts that post good scores, so that the politicians can say "look at what we did!" It does not say anything about what the children have learned, or more importantly, how much of that learning they have retained.
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copteacher
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:32 Post subject:
higher funding does not equate better scores for anyone.
What about parents working with their kids or shutting the tv and the nintendo off too.
what are the Feds doing in education anyway. It has historically been a function of the states. Shut it down, give block grants to the states for money and let the states spend the money as they see fit because they could better allocate the money.
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:33 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | genie wrote: | The NEA is what's killing education, and nothing else. That organization has done more harm than good almost since its inception.
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No organization is without fault of action. I disagree that the NEA is killing education, as the bulk of its member base is comprised of educators. My father was a member of NJEA for nearly 40 years, so I know what they did very well. There's a lot that the members wanted to be done, that was needed to be done, that just couldn't be done (can we say LACK OF STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDING?). That said, I still would much rather discuss educational policy with people who are in the trenches, however flawed, than with the politicians who enforce NCLB. NCLB does nothing but teach to the test, and that isn't sound learning. It's not learning at all. Those standardized tests are trophies for the districts that post good scores, so that the politicians can say "look at what we did!" It does not say anything about what the children have learned, or more importantly, how much of that learning they have retained. |
I agree that no organization is without fault, however, I think this article kinda sums up what I meant by what I said. The NEA are turning more into political activists for the Left than sticking to the educational issues and teaching our kids the basics.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/dl20030712.shtml
Edited to add: I agree with po po, it is the job of the PARENTS, not the schools, to monitor what their kids are learning, make sure they are getting educated on what the teachers are being paid to teach them, reading, math, etc, and to teach them values and morals as well. I don't want a member of some nutcase organization teaching my kid what's right and wrong based on their political agenda.
Last edited by genie on 01/21/04 - 16:41; edited 2 times in total
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sonnylax
Member
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Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:35 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | Then what was your point?
You were the one comparing taxes (individuals vs. corporations). Here is your direct quote:
| Quote: | If everyone paid the same percentage in taxes, including large corporations, there would not likely be all of the discussion and argument about taxes. Sure, taxes suck, but if a large company can pay a smaller percentage of taxes than i do....that's not right.
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Who's complaining? It was a comment in refernce to RunTexas's post about leaving our taxes alone. I was suggesting that if everyone was actually taxed equally, including corporations, we probably wouldn't have to have the issue of who gets taxed what and whose hands shouldn't be touching my money because there would likely be a much greater total of tax money being recieved by the U.S. government. Instead, we can have billion dollar companies who have found loopholes and exemptions so that they do not have to pay taxes. |
So you do or do not believe corporations pay taxes? You have reveresed yourself twice in this thread and I'm confused.
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Maddies Wench
Flailing Homosapiens
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 6103
Location: Seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go.
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:41 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | genie wrote: | The NEA is what's killing education, and nothing else. That organization has done more harm than good almost since its inception.
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No organization is without fault of action. I disagree that the NEA is killing education, as the bulk of its member base is comprised of educators. My father was a member of NJEA for nearly 40 years, so I know what they did very well. There's a lot that the members wanted to be done, that was needed to be done, that just couldn't be done (can we say LACK OF STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDING?). That said, I still would much rather discuss educational policy with people who are in the trenches, however flawed, than with the politicians who enforce NCLB. NCLB does nothing but teach to the test, and that isn't sound learning. It's not learning at all. Those standardized tests are trophies for the districts that post good scores, so that the politicians can say "look at what we did!" It does not say anything about what the children have learned, or more importantly, how much of that learning they have retained. |
Gotta agree here. Ian's Gma is an educator and I see this all the time.
Her chief complaints are:
* Long hours. She teaches all day, meets all evening, then brings work home at night.
*Administrators who have lost sight of the goal - (preparing citizens of the world not churning out good test takers).
*Parents who either are uninvolved, or who deny their child needs services. Parents who do not take responsibility for their child's areas of weakness and get involved to seek a solution.
*Lack of funding. Lack of Funding. Lack of Funding. My MIL's pet peeve is that money is thrown at children who will never achieve above a certain level, and yet there is no funding for Gifted programs.
*The MTA and NEA. She is FORCED to contribute to these organizations regardless of the fact that she has serious issues with its tenets.
*School board members who have no clue about education but instead are all about saving tax dollars.
And children succeed IN SPITE of the challenges the educators face because the educators are DEDICATED, DAMN FINE people who do what they do sometimes WAY ABOVE the call of duty because they believe that it's worth it. Even if they never see the results of their work first hand.
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Noley
AZhat
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:51 Post subject:
| Maddie's Wench wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | genie wrote: | The NEA is what's killing education, and nothing else. That organization has done more harm than good almost since its inception.
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No organization is without fault of action. I disagree that the NEA is killing education, as the bulk of its member base is comprised of educators. My father was a member of NJEA for nearly 40 years, so I know what they did very well. There's a lot that the members wanted to be done, that was needed to be done, that just couldn't be done (can we say LACK OF STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDING?). That said, I still would much rather discuss educational policy with people who are in the trenches, however flawed, than with the politicians who enforce NCLB. NCLB does nothing but teach to the test, and that isn't sound learning. It's not learning at all. Those standardized tests are trophies for the districts that post good scores, so that the politicians can say "look at what we did!" It does not say anything about what the children have learned, or more importantly, how much of that learning they have retained. |
Gotta agree here. Ian's Gma is an educator and I see this all the time.
Her chief complaints are:
* Long hours. She teaches all day, meets all evening, then brings work home at night.
*Administrators who have lost sight of the goal - (preparing citizens of the world not churning out good test takers).
*Parents who either are uninvolved, or who deny their child needs services. Parents who do not take responsibility for their child's areas of weakness and get involved to seek a solution.
*Lack of funding. Lack of Funding. Lack of Funding. My MIL's pet peeve is that money is thrown at children who will never achieve above a certain level, and yet there is no funding for Gifted programs.
*The MTA and NEA. She is FORCED to contribute to these organizations regardless of the fact that she has serious issues with its tenets.
*School board members who have no clue about education but instead are all about saving tax dollars.
And children succeed IN SPITE of the challenges the educators face because the educators are DEDICATED, DAMN FINE people who do what they do sometimes WAY ABOVE the call of duty because they believe that it's worth it. Even if they never see the results of their work first hand. |
0: Sorry Genie...I have to disagree on that point.
1: Elkid and your comments. Can't stress to you how much I was expected to "teach to a test" and be able to demostrate that my students were proficient by the end of March...yes March. You see...I had to make sure I got the entire curriculum in by March before that test. You talk about pressure and a disservice to kids. Do you think my students retained much with math that year? 
1: Ian's Gma sounds like my life as an educator. Now...why is it that I'm wanting to go back???
Oh yea...for the reason I did in the first place.
I love to teach and work with kids 
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Noley
AZhat
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:53 Post subject:
Oh and...
Did I just get myself involved in a political thread?
Usually I just peek and pass through.
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copteacher
Adjunct
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Posted: 01/21/04 - 16:57 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Pug wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | Then what was your point?
You were the one comparing taxes (individuals vs. corporations). Here is your direct quote:
| Quote: | If everyone paid the same percentage in taxes, including large corporations, there would not likely be all of the discussion and argument about taxes. Sure, taxes suck, but if a large company can pay a smaller percentage of taxes than i do....that's not right.
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Who's complaining? It was a comment in refernce to RunTexas's post about leaving our taxes alone. I was suggesting that if everyone was actually taxed equally, including corporations, we probably wouldn't have to have the issue of who gets taxed what and whose hands shouldn't be touching my money because there would likely be a much greater total of tax money being recieved by the U.S. government. Instead, we can have billion dollar companies who have found loopholes and exemptions so that they do not have to pay taxes. |
So you do or do not believe corporations pay taxes? You have reveresed yourself twice in this thread and I'm confused. |
here are fiscal year taxes paid from the irs. Click tax here
I'll say some taxes were paid
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