Parents/Teachers, what do you think of this?
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JACKED UP
PRESIDENT
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 Posted: 06/08/04 - 09:41 Post subject: Parents/Teachers, what do you think of this?
My youngest is 12 and was a straight A student all through grade school, although their is no recognition for this in grade school. This year he was in 6th grade, his first year in the jr. high. I just got his scores for the Iowa basic skills test(or whatever). He scored in the top 4% nationally. Here's what happend this year. He had set a goal to get all A's as there is an award at the end of the year for this. Their is also an award for no grade less than a B-. So the first quarter he has all A's except a B+ in gym. So I go to school and ask the gym teacher, who also coaches some sports in the jr. and sr. high, why the B and what needs to be done to get the B to an A next quarter. He says he just doesn't believe in giving 6th graders A's the first quarter and he rarely does. He also says Jake just needs to continue to do his best as he felt Jake was already doing.  Fine.  I asked a couple teachers who go to my gym and they thought the award was academic and the gym grade should not have any influence on the award. Jake gets all A's the rest of the year even in gym. Well awards night came 2 days before school lets out for the summer and Jake gets an award for no grade lower than a B-. Obviously the gym grade was included. 
I can't help but feel he was sorta screwed here. I think mainly because the gym teacher really had no true reason for the B. Had he gone out for a sport would it have been different?  Jake was bothered by this but didn't say much to me. My family thinks this was terrible and I should say something. What do you guys think.
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AlaninTX
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 09:44 Post subject:
I can only share what I would tell my son. That is "Awards are nice, honors are nice, but remember the work you do, the grades you get, are for yourself. Your mother and I couldn't possibly ask any more from you than what you are doing, and words cannot convey how proud we are of your accomplishments."
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Maddies Wench
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 09:57 Post subject:
Believe it or not, I can tell you that I know just how he feels.
When I had my first ship-board performance evaluation, I felt I had been busting my ass. I was nose to the grindstone learning everything there was to know and doing my best to be the best sailor I could be.
My eval came back with 3.8 out of four on all counts. My chief told me "Chev, I know you've been giving me 4.0 work, but if I gave you 4.0's there would be nothing for you to work towards."
So I was like...dude...how much harder could I work here? I qualified for QMOW in three months. It takes most people 6.
WTF??
I would ask the school administrator what he/she thinks.
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andydp
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 10:20 Post subject:
Go talk to the administrator about this little "glitch". Its too late to do anything about this for this year but maybe something will be done for next year.
Your son did very well reguardless of the B- grade thing. How many other kids got awards like that ? Tell him to keep at his goals and he will do fine.
We had the same situation in HS with my son. The chem teacher said he "never" gives higher than a B+. My wife stood up in the parent's orientation class and said basically "you just told every kid not to bother working hard, you're not going to get an A". (I think he revisited his policy)
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 11:46 Post subject:
I personally wouldn't make a big deal about it. It might provide some motivation for him, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean anything. No awards outside of valedictorian mean anything at all. And then with valedictorian, it's usually a small monetary one-time scholarship. It's not like it will affect his future. Although that gym dude sounds like a major tool.
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Noley
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 11:52 Post subject: Re: Parents/Teachers, what do you think of this?
| JACKED UP wrote: | | Quote: | | So the first quarter he has all A's except a B+ in gym. So I go to school and ask the gym teacher, who also coaches some sports in the jr. and sr. high, why the B and what needs to be done to get the B to an A next quarter. He says he just doesn't believe in giving 6th graders A's the first quarter and he rarely does. He also says Jake just needs to continue to do his best as he felt Jake was already doing. Fine. |
I cannot believe that this gym teacher has this policy and is allowed to use it??? It's a bunch of bull! I would have had my ass chewed and job on the line if I took up that motto in my classroom teaching math. It'd be like me giving my top students making A's all B+(s) for the hell of it and without justification. There's no way that his reasoning here is justified and I cannot believe that someone has not called him out on it before? He needs to be "called out on" this...honestly he does. I'd want to see and have a break down of his entire grading system. It's not a matter of "what his beliefs are", it really isn't. He shouldn't be dishing out grades that he thinks he should dish out. It's a bogus deal and kids should get the grades that they truly earn. What an ass!
| Quote: | | I can't help but feel he was sorta screwed here. I think mainly because the gym teacher really had no true reason for the B. Had he gone out for a sport would it have been different? Jake was bothered by this but didn't say much to me. My family thinks this was terrible and I should say something. What do you guys think. |
Your son did get screwed (and I'm sure other kids as well). You need to find out first if all the work your son did that first quarter could equate to A work, and not B+ work. I'd have that coach do a breakdown of your son's grades to see. His grade book should be kept and held on file for several years. It might be even better if you can get an administrator involved where he/she can retrieve that gradebook him/herself. I would get the administration involved and have them look over this crappy "Only Give B+ Policy During Quarter 1" that has been adopted. It's bogus...it truly is! I think you're entitled for a better explaination and he needs to be called on it. You son deserves better as well.
It's not just about getting that A honor roll paper. It's about ethics. It's about right and wrong here. If your son earned an A...he deserves one. Bottom line. There should have been no manipulation done to his grade otherwise.
I'd get up to that school immediately so it doesn't happen again. If the school won't listen, get up to the school board and find someone who will. Make a stink. This is just my  That coach gives teaching a bad rap!
Also, find other parents who have had this happen to their children. If a lot of you do the talking, you'll see things happen. Also, have your complaint well documented, written out and ready to give to the admistrators/school board. That will show that you mean business.
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Noley
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 11:58 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | I personally wouldn't make a big deal about it. It might provide some motivation for him, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean anything. No awards outside of valedictorian mean anything at all. And then with valedictorian, it's usually a small monetary one-time scholarship. It's not like it will affect his future. Although that gym dude sounds like a major tool. |
I disagree. Any kid who puts full effort into the work they do deserves the grades they earn. It's not a teacher's or coaches job to "assign" a grade because he or she has a crap policy to do so. It truly isn't. These grades down the line do matter. I know that I've had to evalute my 6th grader at the end of the year and determine whether he/she should go into Honor's Math for the 7th grade. There were only 30 available slots for that Honor's Math class and sometimes I'd have 40 kids make it. I'd look at test scores, effort, homework turned in, grades in other classes, the whole nine yards, etc. to determine which 30 got into Honor's Math. It was a hard and somewhat unfair situation to be in. However, it was my only way to determine sometimes how I would choose. So, grades to play a role here, even in the 6th grade.
It's not about the award given here. It's about ethics. That gym teacher is picking and choosing what a child gets for his grade in school. That's wrong and shouldn't be tolerated. He needs to come up with a better policy than that.
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copteacher
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 12:10 Post subject:
As a trained teacher and a part time teacher let me give some insight on what I think from their (the teachers perspective). I think it is stupid not to give a kid an "a" if he deserves it. If the kids is exceptional, which is what an a is then the a should be given period. A b is above average. 3 months is enough time to determine even in gym the difference between exceptional and above average.
Some teachers get off on the power they hold. Now we do not have the benefit of the gym teachers insight besides his saying that no a in the first grading period.
As far as academics, gym does not and should not count. There are tons of athletic awards that completely do not take into count academics.
the 3 r's is what should be considered. Unless there is an excellent overall student, then gym should not be considered.
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cherylpf
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 12:21 Post subject:
[butting in, I have no kids nor am I a teacher]
It sounds like you have a really bright kid who works really hard which is fantastic. My worth is sort of along the lines of what Alan said, be proud of him for what he did achieve, make sure he's proud of his own hard work and continue to encourage his great work ethic. But additionally to that, I don't like the idea of the parents stepping in to make things "right", I feel like that gives a mixed message of some sort to the child. Not saying that the PE teacher was right for his bizarre grading standard, but more that its a lesson in that life isn't fair, and Mom and Dad aren't always going to be able to swoop in to make things right when life is unfair next time. But most importantly focus hard work is its own reward regardless of whether it is recognized, that learning is a lifelong experience, not something just measured on a semester basis and that it is this that you as his parents are proud of, not necessarily the school's arbitrary grading and awarding system. Maybe the administration needs to be notified of the gym teacher's practices but I don't think it should have any effect on the outcome. He had a great school year, no question! I think he'll still do fine academically here forward, esp if he knows he has your love and support. I know I'm in the minority here and have no experience to measure this on except just being a kid once.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 12:22 Post subject:
| nolefan85 wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | I personally wouldn't make a big deal about it. It might provide some motivation for him, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean anything. No awards outside of valedictorian mean anything at all. And then with valedictorian, it's usually a small monetary one-time scholarship. It's not like it will affect his future. Although that gym dude sounds like a major tool. |
I disagree. Any kid who puts full effort into the work they do deserves the grades they earn. It's not a teacher's or coaches job to "assign" a grade because he or she has a crap policy to do so. It truly isn't. These grades down the line do matter. I know that I've had to evalute my 6th grader at the end of the year and determine whether he/she should go into Honor's Math for the 7th grade. There were only 30 available slots for that Honor's Math class and sometimes I'd have 40 kids make it. I'd look at test scores, effort, homework turned in, grades in other classes, the whole nine yards, etc. to determine which 30 got into Honor's Math. It was a hard and somewhat unfair situation to be in. However, it was my only way to determine sometimes how I would choose. So, grades to play a role here, even in the 6th grade.
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Yes, I agree it's a stupid thing for the teacher/coach to do. But, I still think the B+ grade in gym for one quarter makes absolutely no difference. If a grade in gym keeps a student out of an honors academic class, I think the coach that gave the grade is the least of the school's problems. And going back to the award, there's no way you can convince me that it does matter. It's a pat on the back, but no real reward. What, do they issue a pin or even.... a certificate? Ooohh... 
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Noley
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 12:29 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | nolefan85 wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | I personally wouldn't make a big deal about it. It might provide some motivation for him, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean anything. No awards outside of valedictorian mean anything at all. And then with valedictorian, it's usually a small monetary one-time scholarship. It's not like it will affect his future. Although that gym dude sounds like a major tool. |
I disagree. Any kid who puts full effort into the work they do deserves the grades they earn. It's not a teacher's or coaches job to "assign" a grade because he or she has a crap policy to do so. It truly isn't. These grades down the line do matter. I know that I've had to evalute my 6th grader at the end of the year and determine whether he/she should go into Honor's Math for the 7th grade. There were only 30 available slots for that Honor's Math class and sometimes I'd have 40 kids make it. I'd look at test scores, effort, homework turned in, grades in other classes, the whole nine yards, etc. to determine which 30 got into Honor's Math. It was a hard and somewhat unfair situation to be in. However, it was my only way to determine sometimes how I would choose. So, grades to play a role here, even in the 6th grade.
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Yes, I agree it's a stupid thing for the teacher/coach to do. But, I still think the B+ grade in gym for one quarter makes absolutely no difference. If a grade in gym keeps a student out of an honors academic class, I think the coach that gave the grade is the least of the school's problems. And going back to the award, there's no way you can convince me that it does matter. It's a pat on the back, but no real reward. What, do they issue a pin or even.... a certificate? Ooohh... |
I do see what you are saying here. I really do. However, I know for a fact that in some schools teachers will look at every single grade across the board to determine things. I'm saying this with experience. I looked at PE grades to figure which of my top math kids went into that Honor's Math class the next year. I looked at a number of things and grades did play a big part in that. How do you eliminate 10 outstanding kids in the first place and justify doing so. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. This could be the same for the coach that has to pick his team. A coach will look at everything a student has done to chose the top candidates (grades across the board, effort in class, attendance, etc.).
I don't think it's about the award here. I think it's more than that. I truly do.
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Noley
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 12:45 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | I don't like the idea of the parents stepping in to make things "right", I feel like that gives a mixed message of some sort to the child. Not saying that the PE teacher was right for his bizarre grading standard, but more that its a lesson in that life isn't fair, and Mom and Dad aren't always going to be able to swoop in to make things right when life is unfair next time.
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How dare you butt in... 
I see your point here, but I think parents should butt in if something ethically is not right. Life is not fair, true. However why should that teacher decide what kind of grade a students gets when he didn't deserve that grade? I know it's a small difference B+/A-, however it's huge to that child. It's a big deal to that child who worked his butt off and was still assigned a grade. I would love to have seen what would have happened if this coach were a math teacher. OMG. There'd be people going off the deep end over something like this. I'm sure this policy would not stick for a math teacher at that same school. I know I'd have a dozen plus parents crawling up my butt If I had done something like this.
I think a parent should "stay home" and not do the fighting when a child has not made that A simply by not earning it. There's a huge difference here. I have had many conferences where the parents came in saying,"my child always made A's in math...blah, blah, blah". I would simply show them a breakdown in the grades and say,"here....this is what your child did and how he performed". This is where my grading policy was justified and they should have stayed home rather than complain.
I see what you are saying. I have respectfully disagree. 
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Cappy
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 12:49 Post subject:
If all else fails, you can to take the school district to court.
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JACKED UP
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 13:25 Post subject:
Wow, thanks for the replies here guys. But I'm still at a loss for what to do if anything. Yes, this is about more than the award. It's the principle here. The teachers reasoning just doesn't sit well with me. I would love to see a break down of the grades to see if they truly equal a B+. I truly don't believe Jake's performance in gym was any different in the first quarter than any other. And I'm not one of those parents who would pitch a hissy fit until I got what I thought was due my child. In fact my biggest influence in this issue is the fact that Jake would be very mad if he knew I questioned this with the teacher, principal etc. And he knows how proud we are of him. We constantly encourage him to do his best, that's all we expect.  He has been looking to his future for years and I see good things happening for him as far as job opportunities.
We do laugh though as I tell him to get a good job so Momma can be in a really nice nursing home some day.
Guess what he wants to be when he grows up??? He has been saying since he was 5 yrs. old that he wants to design weapons for the military. This scares me! 
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 06/08/04 - 13:55 Post subject:
You could have a talk with the teacher, and explain to him the consequence his decision played. His response would dictate whether to take it further. The point of having the discussion wouldn't be to change the award, it would be to inform the teacher so he might consider changing the policy. Another value of it would be to show your child that you back him on matters of importance.
I quite agree that the value of hard work isn't its external recognition, although that can go a long way toward motivating a child. How does your son feel about it?
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