Outside Assistance.

Member

A post in Training Tales brings up the interesting subject of pacing and what could be taken as outside assistance

Sir Roger Bannister was the first man to break the 4min. mile, but did so by having three pacers leading out Bannister until the last lap.
John Landy broke Bannister's record some 2 weeks later in Finland going to the front and leading all the way
Apart from the second or so difference was Landy's mile any better than Bannisters ?

In most of the larger road races there is a pace car with a display clock, wouldn't this give a distinct advantage to the lead runner/s especially in a marathon. Is pacing another runner considered assistance ? How about accepting a jelly bean or an ergonomic drink and receiving your field position at a non-scheduled aid station, do you see this as giving a runner an unfair advantage ?
Is this any different to having a cyclist riding up along side to give protection from windy conditions or giving encouragement, aid and information on race position.
When I first started running long races in the 70's I remember aid stations were set up at various intervals with paper cups of water, but the cups were not allowed to be handed to you as this was seen as outside assistance.

Your thoughts

The Movie Geek

Not sure about the rest of the post, but I hate, hate, hate pacers. Hate them.

Just run the damn race clean.

Hipster Doofus

The way I read the report, it seemed less an issue of pace-setting as it was of the two runners accompanying the woman in question drafting for her, not making her work as hard. The fact she subsequently ran behind RAS was also an issue, but that is more a pacing one than drafting.

In the book on the Bannister/Landy/Santee competition to break the four-minute mile, The Perfect Mile, it appears that pacers, intentionally pre-arranged, were part of Bannister's plan in many races (and that is very common in track races up to the present). Landy and Santee, as a generalization, tended to get out front by the end of the first lap - as much a head game to the opposition as to not deal with pacers and drafters.

Bannister's victory over Landy in the Commonwealth Games mile (Vacnouver, 1954), was done without the pacing, and finally got the critics in the sport and the media off his back.

The Pinball

pacing would give an unfair advantage in a track race. and from your post phar i'd say that landy's mile was better than banister's.

Member

I think to put your own pacers and windshields on the course is cheap. To pace off of another runner (someone who is out there with their best interest in mind) is absolutely fine. Drafting on another runner is good tactics. If the race has rules that establish you cannot accept water from an unofficial aid station, then I won't do it. But if they don't say that, then who cares? It's not an unfair advantage because anyone can drop water bottles on the side of the course. The pace car isn't an issue because just about everyone will be wearing a watch. And yeah, Landy's does strike me as the better mile. It's not just the winning, it's how you win.

Member

Phar Lap: accepting water from a friend, a friend calling split to you from the side of the race, a friend on a bike riding alongside you, or a person yelling how close the next runner is behind you........are "all" grounds of DQ according to USATF rules.

This is a good discussion because many races provide ALL the above to the leaders. A media truck with a clock that rides right in front of the front runners. I'm sure a whole truck provides a nicer "draft" than a person.

Someone drafting for you or pacing you is legal as long as they paid their entry. Again, many races will give a free entry to a "rabbit" to set a predetermined pace. The difference is that a race provided "rabbit" is available to anyone that keep that pace.

And race tactics are generally one on one as most the individuals have their own interests at hand. But I think a husband/wife tandem makes race tactics a whole new ballgame. I've had people on my heels before without complaint. My last 10k before this one, almost a year ago, a young girl line up next to me and said "I'm going to stick to you like glue". And she proceeded to do that. Now, knowing that this girl had 10:30 2 mile PR a few years back, it was safe to assume that if she clung to me.....she would definitely outkick me. Now, if she had a nice husband to hang out with us for the first 5.8 miles and then he manuevered in front of me quickly and clipped my pace while young lady swung out with her kick I'd absolutely be mad........because if husband was not a husband and another woman, she'd not make that move because she is settling herself for 2nd...or 3rd...a different gender does not quite care....because if he is back by the lead women......he's not in leader contention.

but obviously this husband/wife tandem has a worse kick than me:

===== =================== === = =============== == ========== ======= =====

1 Curt Van 21 M Sault Sainte Ma MI 35:14 5:41

2 Matthew Grzelak 18 M Gillett WI 36:56 5:57

3 Kevin O'Rourke 22 M Marinette WI 37:19 6:01

4 Douglas Polomis 32 M Marinette WI 37:30 6:02

5 Sue Pierson 42 F Neenah WI 37:46 6:05

6 Lauren Ankrum 33 F Crivitz WI 38:25 6:11

7 Adam Ankrum 34 M Crivitz WI 38:26 6:11

8 Thomas Karban 49 M Marinette WI 39:32 6:22

9 Daniel Johanski 50 M Green Bay WI 39:50 6:25

10 Mike Piasecki 44 M Crivitz WI 41:15 6:39

Member

I have mixed emotions on pacers for elite runners in races. In the Peachtree Road Race, for example, male pacers for the elite women start at mile 3. Those pacers run just behind the women with a flag representing the place of the woman. This is done in part to identify the leading women runners from the males so the officials can see them when they approach the finish line.

These pacers are in fact open to any woman that is in the top 13 female finishers when they reach the 3 mile mark of the Peachtree Road Race (10k). In this instance, I don't have a problem with the pacers.

But I would have a problem with them if they were assisting male or female runners to simply run a specific pace. That should be run on each runners own strength.

In any race you have to be aware of how much officials bend rules. For most runners assistance from a friend or someone else won't affect you because you are too far back in the pack for race officials to worry about. But as a couple of runners have found out in very recent races you can and will be DQ'ed if the outside assistance results in your winning/placing in a race. Know the rules before running a race and if you are unsure, email the RD.

Member

runaroundsue,
I am a Sue also and lived in Neenah for 5 years, from k-5th grade. I loved it there. Moved to a NW suburb of Chicago for 12 years, then up to Minnesota where I've been for the past 20 years.

I still get a kick out of seeing Neenah Foundry on all of the sewer grates in town--brings back happy memories! Very Happy

Hope the lakeflies are not too pesky this year!!! I remember playing doctor with them at recess--we'd rip their wings off and put them in "hospital beds" of grass and twigs. Twisted Evil

I should have stopped while I was ahead....

Member

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