Not poll: gender based differences in sexual harrassment
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genie
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 Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:33 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | <ducking for cover>G that may be the case about sex
but sex to men is like "connecting emotionally/talking" for the wimmins.
</ducking for cover> |
 hmmm...maybe y'all are more pigs than I thought 
No, I see what you mean.
El, I respectfully beg to differ on that statement. In some cases, maybe, but it's tough to justify the white man's POV without being called a racist, yet black advocacy groups can make all sorts of race-bending statements and get no reprimand for them whatsoever. Yes, their ancestors were treated horribly in many cases, but you know what? Quit playing the race card and come into the 21st century, I say. If women's groups could fight for and in some cases get, closer-to-equal rights (cuz they still aren't equal) then why can't minority groups? Maybe because their sense of entitlement prompts them to expect to get everything handed to them?
Show me where there's a United White Person's College Fund, because I know a bunch of white male friends of mine who are struggling to pay their own tuition and are in debt up to their asses in loans, not grants, LOANS to do so.
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Cappy
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:35 Post subject:
The black's problems are a discussion for another day. Don't try to deflect the issue if you are afraid to answer the question
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copteacher
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:35 Post subject:
This country is great because of great people. Not differences. Differences never won a noble or pulitzer, great people did, regardless of whatever.
MLK had a dream 40 years ago. It is a shame that some people cannot get past the differences and realize that pulling your self up by your boot straps and not making excuses of stereotypes.
People like Colin Powell and Condi Rice are considered "sellouts" and they are two of the post powerful people in the world. Heck that is quite an accomplishment.
Powell did not get the job because he was black. He got the job because he was extremely well qualified.
ditto for Rice.
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TriBob
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:38 Post subject:
Why can we have a Black Ms. America but not a Caucasion Ms. America?
Is this not a double standard?
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elkid
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:47 Post subject:
First off, never thought I'd see the day where someone would say that I am afraid to answer a question. As if.
| jrjo wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | Boo hoo hoo, the poor white male - you have it sooo rough. |
So because I'm white and male, I get no say? |
Of course you get a say, dude. Just don't expect people to believe that the most educated, most affluent, and most opportunity-rich segment of the population has it bad. If you are so unhappy, talk to the predominantly white male Congress. With only 3% of the Senate and 7% of the House being minorities, and only 13% of Congress and 22% of state legislatures being female, you're sure to make your point loud and clear.
That said, I think everyone, men and women, take sexual harassment too far. So much is incorrectly thrown under that blanket that the real cases get diluted. If someone wishes to hang movie stills (of hot people or otherwise) in their offices, fine. That's significantly different from hanging pinups of Chippendale dancers and swimsuit models. Just as there is a HUGE difference between saying "Happy Hump Day!" to a cow-orker and posting pictures on a website on the porn-riddled internet.
G: I see your point to an extent, except for the women's rights thing. When a strong-willed woman comes out and says something, she's still considered a b!tch by many. That quality in a man is seen as confidence. The double standard is still there - don't think for a minute it's not.
And as far as a "black" this is OK but a "white" one is not, or a "female" this is OK but a "male" one is not, that's because traditionally and societally it is assumed that if you don't have a differentiator it's a white male thing. Not saying that's right, just sayin' that's the way it is.
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airehead
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:53 Post subject:
The reason all of these "visuals" have been directed at men for so long is because men, overall, are "visually" stimulated. Women are mentally stimulated. (Research backs me up on this)
The problem that occurs with "visuals" for men, is men for centuries (and NO not just the white male) have enjoyed their lusts and "TAKEN" what they wanted. Vicitimization sucks. Women want to remove that, and they see female visuals (porn) as further victimization--or an activity that leads to further victimization.
Women are rarely ever able to overpower a male and victimize him, so men usually don't feel visuals about naked men are degrading or victimizing. Males hold the power, due to sheer strength. Men do get physically abused, though--make no mistake about that. I had a male relative that got beat on by a girlfriend quite often. (but that is VERY different to sexual victimization)
Women are enjoying the cheesecake shots now because they are realizing that it is healthy to have sexual desire. For many years women were told sex was a "duty". Today's woman is realizing that it can be so much more than that--and even better with the right man. So, women are now exploring their "desires" and men gain positively.
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Sahara
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 10:57 Post subject:
| AlaninTX wrote: | Speaking for myself, I am quite sure no one has ever used my name and sexual harrasement in the same sentence. When I was a young man I thought I was just shy. Now that I am older I realize that accepting certain standards of conduct for myself made me feel the most comfortable. A good rule of thumb for myself now is "Would you want someone to say or suggest that to your 18-year-old daughter?" It isn't so much that I am, or was, the "shy, sweet guy" as it is having to live with myself.
And perhaps I have lived a charmed life, but I have never felt any double standard has ever applied to me based on my race and gender. I have been denied nothing, and allowed to achieve based on my abilities. But then, I have always strived to make my judgements on people based on their character and ability, and have assumed the same has been extended to myself. If I am mistaken, it has yet to impact me in any meaningful way. |
Is it sexual harrassment to tell you that you and your POV is more than  appealing?!
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AlaninTX
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:09 Post subject:
| Sahara wrote: | | AlaninTX wrote: | Speaking for myself, I am quite sure no one has ever used my name and sexual harrasement in the same sentence. When I was a young man I thought I was just shy. Now that I am older I realize that accepting certain standards of conduct for myself made me feel the most comfortable. A good rule of thumb for myself now is "Would you want someone to say or suggest that to your 18-year-old daughter?" It isn't so much that I am, or was, the "shy, sweet guy" as it is having to live with myself.
And perhaps I have lived a charmed life, but I have never felt any double standard has ever applied to me based on my race and gender. I have been denied nothing, and allowed to achieve based on my abilities. But then, I have always strived to make my judgements on people based on their character and ability, and have assumed the same has been extended to myself. If I am mistaken, it has yet to impact me in any meaningful way. |
Is it sexual harrassment to tell you that you and your POV is more than appealing?! |
No, it is not harrassment.
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:10 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | Of course you get a say, dude. Just don't expect people to believe that the most educated, most affluent, and most opportunity-rich segment of the population has it bad. If you are so unhappy, talk to the predominantly white male Congress. With only 3% of the Senate and 7% of the House being minorities, and only 13% of Congress and 22% of state legislatures being female, you're sure to make your point loud and clear. |
But if you look at the statistics you posted, who had the higher rates in carrying weapons to school and being threatened with violence? And the lower SAT scores? WHY are they the more educated? Because they work for it. WHY are the more opportunity rich? Because they spend less time bitching about how bad they had it 200 years ago and more time pursuing a better way of life. Joe is right, CP and CR do get criticized a lot by their own minority groups because they "sold out" and worked for what they got. Should anyone be criticized for working for a living and making something of themselves ON THEIR OWN rather than not only expecting, but DEMANDING that everything be given to them or else? Did you not say yourself that your (white male) husband and you put yourselves through college and didn't you have to work more or something while he was finishing his degree, so that he could finish? Sacrifices have to be made, Lauri, you two were willing to work for it, why shouldn't everyone hold to that same (very admirable) standard?
| Quote: | | That said, I think everyone, men and women, take sexual harassment too far. So much is incorrectly thrown under that blanket that the real cases get diluted. If someone wishes to hang movie stills (of hot people or otherwise) in their offices, fine. That's significantly different from hanging pinups of Chippendale dancers and swimsuit models. Just as there is a HUGE difference between saying "Happy Hump Day!" to a cow-orker and posting pictures on a website on the porn-riddled internet. |
I agree. I would never say that there isn't still sexual harrassment and sexual abuse, there certainly is, but the highlighted statement supports my POV as well.
| Quote: | | G: I see your point to an extent, except for the women's rights thing. When a strong-willed woman comes out and says something, she's still considered a b!tch by many. That quality in a man is seen as confidence. The double standard is still there - don't think for a minute it's not. |
You're right again. There's a really good email that goes around every once in a while about "b*tchdom" that says just that. I did say that it's definitely not at an equal level yet.
| Quote: | | And as far as a "black" this is OK but a "white" one is not, or a "female" this is OK but a "male" one is not, that's because traditionally and societally it is assumed that if you don't have a differentiator it's a white male thing. Not saying that's right, just sayin' that's the way it is. |
No, it isn't right and I think that's what some of the guys here are trying to say. I agree with them, our society is f*ed up in more ways than we have bandwidth space here to list. And most of it stems around political power playing and not a concern for basic human rights at all. That's the saddest part.
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elkid
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:11 Post subject:
| airehead wrote: | | said a lot of good stuff |
... particularly interesting because her avatar is a CUPCAKE! ba-dum-bump!
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RunsLikeAGirl
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:15 Post subject:
Interesting topic.
The bottom line is that there are double standards for everything. It's just the way it is. People handle those situations in different ways - in the case of "harrassment," most women get all bent out of shape over nothing. That's a confidence issue with the woman in question, not a problem with a guy liking swimsuit calendars.
I personally don't give a darn what you boys want to look at, because at the end of the day, it's not going to be the model in the magazine jumping into bed with you. While airehead's comment about visual stimulation is true, I think that you guys are fully aware of where the goods are really at.
The only thing that annoys me is the point elkid brought up - you get a woman that expresses her opinion "like a man," and you're considered a b!tch. Or even a whore. That stigma will probably never go away, but once again it's all in how you deal with it. If you're going to get bent out of shape at someone's comments, that you'd best not engage in whatever is inciting the comments in the first place.
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copteacher
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:18 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
You're right aga And most of it stems around political power playing and not a concern for basic human rights at all. That's the saddest part. |
the real question is who wimmin want to live anywhere else but this country. I think it is pretty darn good for the wimmins here.
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RunsLikeAGirl
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:21 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | genie wrote: |
You're right aga And most of it stems around political power playing and not a concern for basic human rights at all. That's the saddest part. |
the real question is who wimmin want to live anywhere else but this country. I think it is pretty darn good for the wimmins here. |
Amen. I can do what I want, say what I want, think what I want, and if no one likes it, whatever. Anywhere else I'd probably be shot, but here I'll just end up a lonely old lady on her porch with 2 dogs and a cat.
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brie k
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:24 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: |
the real question is who wimmin want to live anywhere else but this country. I think it is pretty darn good for the wimmins here. |
Amen to that. I can speak whenever I want (ok, cannot during LOTR 2) and don't have to wear a veil to cover myself, or clothes that go up to here or down to their in ridiculous heat, etc. Many pros to living here opposed to other places. I'll take the double-standards, thanks.
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RunsLikeAGirl
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Posted: 08/29/03 - 11:26 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
You're right aga And most of it stems around political power playing and not a concern for basic human rights at all. That's the saddest part. |
I respectfully disagree - politics certainly play a role, but I really think it comes down to the individual. Individual people are what make things happen, not some amorphous governing body. We as individuals need to simply make the decision that this is not how it's going to be, and convey that to the people we as individuals have elected to represent us. Yes, I realize it's easier said than done, but saying it's entirely about political power playing seems to be shifting the responsibility from where it should lie. This is democracy, after all.
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I bet that the American black male 
