Moral Issues, Cover ups, Foley, Elections
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wanttorun100
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 Posted: 10/11/06 - 15:15 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: |
but that would alienate the kook fringe base that is the democratic party |
Dude, knock it off. I can personalize stuff too. Here's an example: In general, members of that 'kook fringe base' are at least 137 IQ points smarter than you.
I can feel my credibility rising. |
well amoung the kook fringe but then we knew that already
but it pretty clearly is one of the growingly ineffective October Suprises
but lackining much of anything else that's pretty much what the democrats are left with
The sad thing is the smart people in the Democratic Party like you can't seem to wrestle control from the Kiltonistas
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 15:22 Post subject:
am I missing something here? a Republican is discovered to have a moral/ethical behavior problem. there is the possibility that other Republicans knew about said behavior problem. there is even the possibility that other semi-closeted Republican homosexuals knew and protected the man. Yet the blame goes to the Democrats? is that what is being said in this thread? Does anyone really think the Democrats (kook fringe base that they are) could orchestrate something like that?
early in this thread, those who had something to say about it, freely admitted that this could happen in either party; neither party has a lock on moral, or immoral behavior. what gives with the accusations? A Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy???? hello? do we have a Republican version of Hillary?
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 15:44 Post subject:
classic play - since Republicans are the party of Morals you find some numbnut, RINO who's in the closet and chases young men
you use that as 'See see see - Republicans are sinners just like everyone else.' in an attempt to demoralize the mainstream base of the Republican party.
Course it turns out to be a dirty trick and the mainstream conservative / Republicans see right through it anyway
Man I can't wait to see what they try to roll out in '08 - pass the popcorn please - or maybe the Democrats will find an issue -
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andydp
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 15:49 Post subject:
Unfortunately, like Diva said, this is getting off topic. We've had a couple of "personal" type comments and we're now engaged in the "lunatic Democratic fringe" bashing.
To get back to the topic at hand:
Republican Party sells itself as the party of "Moral Values", wins support from the more Religious of US Citizens because of this merchandizing. Think back to 2004: Gay Marriage, Constitutional Amendments, God in the Pledge and just a "hint" the Republicans were more moral than those hedonistic Democrats.
Fast Forward to 2006: A Republican is caught sending rather salacious messages to a 16, 18 or whatever aged kid. This Congressman is actually the author of anti-predator legislation meant to protect kids. While this may be "legal" it certainly ranks as "sleazy" just like Clinton/Lewinski. Not even mentioning the fact these kids are "wards of Congress".
The original comment was because of their "moral values" stance the Republican fall/backlash may be harder than expected.
Thanks to a certain poster we have lost the original thread about morality and hipocrisy and are concentrating on whether its all a vast "left wing" plot so the Democrats can win back Congress. I suspect this happened because the poster has no real plausible answers to the original posting.
So: Is the Foley issue going to hurt Republican credibility with the Moral Values crowd ? Will the Moral Values crowd go over to the Democrats ? Will the vast centrist majority of Americans get tired of the "extremism" of either party and vote for middle of the road candidates get the US back on some semblance of balance ?
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 18:12 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | Course it turns out to be a dirty trick and the mainstream conservative / Republicans see right through it anyway
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What kills me is how you keep saying it's a dirty trick. I've yet to see any Democrats involved in this saga. Several Republicans were apparently aware of Mark Foley's proclivities toward pages. The only way I could see this as a dirty trick would be if Foley was a secret Democrat.
The issue of ethics is a political problem for both parties. It's interesting how some Republicans on this board like to put their heads in the sand and their a$$ in the air.
Could you imagine the uproar had Clinton been caught having sex with an intern over the age of 21? Why the Republicans would have been in an uproar. Oh, wait a minute.  Moral hypocrisy does not belong to either party or any particular religious group by itself. But when it does occur the responsible party should be willing to be honest enough to admit their transgressions rather than hiding under the cloak of hypocrisy.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 18:54 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: |
So: Is the Foley issue going to hurt Republican credibility with the Moral Values crowd ? Will the Moral Values crowd go over to the Democrats ? Will the vast centrist majority of Americans get tired of the "extremism" of either party and vote for middle of the road candidates get the US back on some semblance of balance ? |
I think the Foley issue will not hurt the Republican credibility - it's just one man, not the whole party.
| andydp wrote: | | Will the Moral Values crowd go over to the Democrats ? |
Doubtful
| andydp wrote: | | Will the vast centrist majority of Americans get tired of the "extremism" of either party and vote for middle of the road candidates get the US back on some semblance of balance ? |
If you look back in history the majority of presidents are very "middle of the road" candidates - whether Dem or Republican. An extremist (on either side) would be detrimental to the US.
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 19:54 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | | If you look back in history the majority of presidents are very "middle of the road" candidates - whether Dem or Republican. An extremist (on either side) would be detrimental to the US. |
So you don't consider Bush an extremist? Even Reagan and Nixon I never considered extreme. But roughly since one year into his Presidency the only Republicans I can picture more extreme than him is Cheney and Rumsfeld, which may indeed be his "problem" IMO. And while Bush does occasionally actually show signs of independent thought every now and then, he lets his political pundits decide his stands.
Maybe it's because Reagan at least was willing to admit mistakes (Lebanon when those Marines died) that causes me to respect his Presidency although I never voted for him. Reagan also surrounded himself with competent administrators and didn't hesitate to change them when necessary whereas Bush doesn't seem to really give a hoot as to which direction the country is going in under his watch.
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andydp
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Posted: 10/11/06 - 20:48 Post subject:
If you don't think Foleygate may be hastening the effects of dissolusionment to the detriment of the incumbent Republicans look at this:
Full and complete analysis is here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2148699
Election Scorecard
Where the midterm elections stand today.
By Mark Blumenthal and Charles Franklin
Updated Tuesday, Oct. 10, 2006, at 6:32 PM ET
House Race Summary for Oct. 10:
Since our update last week, we have five new national polls on the generic House vote—the new Gallup poll plus surveys from ABC News/Washington Post, CBS/NY Times, CNN/ORC, and Newsweek—and four of the five show some improvement in the Democratic margin. Our chart shows a sharp upward movement in the last-five-poll average of the Democratic margin from roughly 10 percentage points two weeks ago to almost 17 points today.
Then there's the new USA Today/Gallup poll, which is puzzling. A month ago, the voters Gallup considered to be most likely to vote were evenly split (48 percent each) on whether they would support the Democratic or Republican candidate in their congressional district. Their latest survey shows Democrats surging to a 23-point advantage (58 percent to 35 percent). Has the race for control of the House of Representatives really changed that much? We don't know.
One technical note: From now on, we are plotting results for the likely voters rather than registered voters for surveys that report both. While the debate among pollsters remains heated over which subgroup is most reliable, we have examined the polls released since Labor Day, and on average, we see very little difference in the results.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 10/12/06 - 17:12 Post subject:
I agree with Diva, will not hurt the Republican party. The investigation will probably show that both parties knew and then people will make their own determinations about whether it was worse that the Republicans knew and did nothing, or the democrats knew and waited for better timing. In my own mind the later, is more devious. Alot of people look at candidates as individuals.
I know in my state I'm voting republican for governor and democrat for congress and it's based on how they are running their campaign....basically negative ads on their opponents.
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 10/12/06 - 18:26 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | In my own mind the later, is more devious. Alot of people look at candidates as individuals.
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Why of course it is, unless of course it's a Republican waiting for timing. I'm still waiting to hear which Democrats were involved. As much as you and Diva are trying to softsoap this episode, I'll bet you didn't softsoap it when Brother Clinton had his pants down, or zipper open as the case may be.
Bottom line is most Republican politicans are going to continue their judgments on others, regardless of whose civil rights they deny and simply blame Democrats for their own misgivings rather than be honest or ethical.
I suspect the Republicans will indeed generate enough fear between now and election day to remain in power even if Bush was to be caught in bed with a naked 16 year old male page.
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andydp
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Posted: 10/13/06 - 07:49 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | I agree with Diva, will not hurt the Republican party. The investigation will probably show that both parties knew and then people will make their own determinations about whether it was worse that the Republicans knew and did nothing, or the democrats knew and waited for better timing. |
RAS: I have yet to hear of any, repeat any Democrat being involved in this. The two Democrats on the Page Committee claim to have never been approached about Foley. However, several high ranking Republicans were. In fact the Chief of Staff to one high ranking Republican resigned over the issue. He also claims to have notified Republican staffers some years ago. (He testifies today at the House Ethics Committee)
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 10/13/06 - 09:40 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | In my own mind the later, is more devious. Alot of people look at candidates as individuals.
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Why of course it is, unless of course it's a Republican waiting for timing. I'm still waiting to hear which Democrats were involved. As much as you and Diva are trying to softsoap this episode, I'll bet you didn't softsoap it when Brother Clinton had his pants down, or zipper open as the case may be.
Bottom line is most Republican politicans are going to continue their judgments on others, regardless of whose civil rights they deny and simply blame Democrats for their own misgivings rather than be honest or ethical.
I suspect the Republicans will indeed generate enough fear between now and election day to remain in power even if Bush was to be caught in bed with a naked 16 year old male page. |
so very wrong.....I said back then as I say now, and many of the conservatives on this board will back me up as they disagreed (due to the CIE and fraternization). The only person that Clinton needed to answer to was Hillary. His problem was when he lied and he should have said "none of your business who I sleep with." I think it was low of the Republicans to go after Clinton, but lower that Clinton lied. He would have shown greater character to me if he said "none of your business" or admitted it. People make mistakes. I can't imagine getting in front of a million people and revealing my deepest secrets, however, I can't imagine telling a boldface lie when asked outright.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 10/16/06 - 07:31 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | In my own mind the later, is more devious. Alot of people look at candidates as individuals.
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Why of course it is, unless of course it's a Republican waiting for timing. I'm still waiting to hear which Democrats were involved. As much as you and Diva are trying to softsoap this episode, I'll bet you didn't softsoap it when Brother Clinton had his pants down, or zipper open as the case may be.
Bottom line is most Republican politicans are going to continue their judgments on others, regardless of whose civil rights they deny and simply blame Democrats for their own misgivings rather than be honest or ethical.
I suspect the Republicans will indeed generate enough fear between now and election day to remain in power even if Bush was to be caught in bed with a naked 16 year old male page. |
That is one of THE MOST unfair comments I have ever heard you make towards me and it surprises me to be honest.
I did NOT make comments towards the Bill Clinton thing either. But, once again I will comment that I don't believe this has anything to do with party affiliation. I have never, nor will I ever think that Democrats (as a party) are dishonest and unethical. I believe there are folks on both sides of the isle that could use some adjusting.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 10/16/06 - 07:35 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | however, I can't imagine telling a boldface lie when asked outright. |
I actually could have imagined him (or someone in his position) doing such a thing. Maybe Hillary didn't know and he needed to tell her first, maybe he didn't want everyone to know in the manner it was being brought to the public's attention, etc. That is why I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
It wasn't because he was a Democrat either...
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