Love Halliburton, Hate Halliburton or indifferent,
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Cappy
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 Posted: 05/19/04 - 20:45 Post subject:
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp
| Quote: | | Halliburton has said that while the LOGCAP that was in effect from 1992 until 1997 called for a one-to-nine percent profit range, the LOGCAP in effect now calls for significantly less, a one-to-three percent profit margin. |
1-9% and 1-3% is hardly endlessly profiting.
http://bmonday.com/archive/2004/02/10/517.aspx
| Quote: | - In the early 1990s, the Army Corps of Engineers decided they needed to retain a US company under a long term contract to provide random services to the Army as needed. The Army needed a method to get things done on short notice without having to go through the exhaustive government procurement and bidding process for every project. This was dubbed “Logistics Civil Augmentation Program“, or LOGCAP.
- In 1992 Halliburton won the bidding process for this contract, and lost it in 1997 to Dynacorp.
- Despite having lost the contract in 1997, Halliburton was awarded a no-bid contract by the Clinton administration to conduct work needed by US Peacekeepers in the Balkans because it made little sense to change contractors in mid-stream. Halliburton already had boots on the ground, and had experience doing what the Army needed them to do. In fact, Halliburton became one of the Clinton administration's favorite outsourcing contractors, doing work for them in Haiti and Somalia, as well as Bosnia.
- In 2001, Halliburton was again awarded with the LOGCAP contract, after the requisite bidding process.
- In the months leading up to the current conflict in Iraq, Halliburton was asked (under LOGCAP) to formulate a contingency plan to deal with Iraqi oil fires, should Saddam Hussein repeat his crimes of the first Gulf War by setting his oil wells on fire. Halliburton had put out 350 such fires in Kuwait, so they seemed the logical choice to turn to for such advice. "To invite other contractors to compete to perform a highly classified requirement that Kellogg Brown & Root [Halliburton] was already under a competitively awarded contract to perform would have been a wasteful duplication of effort," said the commander of the Army Corps of Engineers, Lt. General Robert Flowers.
- In February of 2003, on the eve of hostilities, Halliburton was tapped to implement the contingency plan it had created, under the LOGCAP contract. "Only [Halliburton], the contractor that developed the complex, classified contingency plans, could commence implementing them on extremely short notice“, wrote Lt. General Flowers.
- Not knowing how many oil wells would be set ablaze by Saddam, the Army estimated the value of this contract at “between $0 and $7 Billion“ (the fires in Kuwait had cost $2.5B to extinguish). The actual value of the contract is now estimated to be around $600M, but the detractors still cling to the $7B number when attacking the administration about it
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Last edited by Cappy on 05/20/04 - 05:57; edited 1 time in total
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/19/04 - 21:46 Post subject:
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copteacher
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 06:04 Post subject:
G3 I dont know why you keep beating that drum. It is like a broken record. Haliburton has been investigated and its books combed. It is almost harassment what people in your camp keep doing to them.
If the bombs in Iraq had a "D" on them instead of an "R" we would not be hearing any of this from your people.
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Cappy
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 07:46 Post subject:
The firm I work for does a lot of business with the US Government.
robp's company does work for the Navy
I am sure a few other folks here work for organizations that do business with the government in one way or another.
Doing business with the government isn't the easiest in the world and a lot of times the profit margins are low, or break even at best. Companies that do business with the government are often specialized and therefore the no-bid process is done, and I know from my experience that companies undertake a lot of these ventures on with heavy up front cost's, and assume risks. . Sometimes its a matter of needing something yesterday and bureaucracy of the government is bypassed in the name of getting things done.
Our government has bailed out the Airline industry, and the Banking Industry, with not nearly as much scrutiny as Halliburton is getting.
I say keep the fuel flowing Halliburton, our troops depend on you
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 09:29 Post subject:
1. Joe: I didn't start the Halliburton discussion, I joined in on it. That it annoys you has no bearing on the matter. Unless and until The Cretins in Charge cease in Iraq, you'll be hearing about it from me.
2. Greg: Do you actually think it's OK that the government allowed the deregulation of the airlines on the premise that the industry would monitor and regulate itself, only to have to bail out airlines who couldn't be bothered to pay for security at airports? I don't understand why corporate welfare is different from the individual welfare you so despise.
3. If it's a problem to have political or other serious topics discussed en masse, why don't we create another area, like what was done for Reviews? I asked this several months ago from the monitors and got no response so I assumed it wasn't a problem.
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copteacher
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 09:38 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | 1. Joe: I didn't start the Halliburton discussion, I joined in on it. That it annoys you has no bearing on the matter. Unless and until The Cretins in Charge cease in Iraq, you'll be hearing about it from me.
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And when Iraq is over it will be something else. It is never ending with you. Because the "R's" are doing it, it is wrong. When the "D" bombs were dropping in Kosovo and killing a bunch of people over there that was okay. Only because we kill from 35,000 feet does not make a difference.
The Cretins you refer too I hope you mean the murdering terrorists who are killing their own people for their own gains. You know what if we leave and they get what they want, they still will not be happy. That is why we should never neogtiate with terrorists. You can't ever appease them. They need to be squashed like Hitler, Mussolini, Hirihito and Stalin.
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Cappy
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 09:41 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | 2. Greg: Do you actually think it's OK that the government allowed the deregulation of the airlines on the premise that the industry would monitor and regulate itself, only to have to bail out airlines who couldn't be bothered to pay for security at airports? I don't understand why corporate welfare is different from the individual welfare you so despise. |
If the airline or any other industry can't survive on its own without government intervention then they have no business being in business. Southwest Airlines has managed to maintain profitability throughout this whole economic downturn. There business model should be looked at by others in the industry.
I don't despise welfare, only those that consistently abuse or take advantage of the system.
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purple hayes
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 09:43 Post subject:
HAHA! You kids and your politics. Play nice or someone could lose an eye. 
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 10:52 Post subject:
[quote="rtpd113] And when Iraq is over it will be something else. It is never ending with you. Because the "R's" are doing it, it is wrong. When the "D" bombs were dropping in Kosovo and killing a bunch of people over there that was okay. Only because we kill from 35,000 feet does not make a difference.
quote]
Why would you think I would think any bombing is OK? It wasn't OK then; it isn't OK now. Don't make assumptions about my beliefs until you bother to find out about them from me.
You're right, it will be something else. If you want peace, work for justice. There's a lot of justice that isn't happening out there so I'll just have to keep raising my voice for everyone else who can't.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 10:56 Post subject:
[quote="Cappy] If the airline or any other industry can't survive on its own without government intervention then they have no business being in business. Southwest Airlines has managed to maintain profitability throughout this whole economic downturn. There business model should be looked at by others in the industry. [quote]
My sentiments exactly. No favors for corporations, they need to stand on their own. But that isn't what's happening.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 11:06 Post subject:
I have a different view: I don't think security should be the resposibility of airlines. I think because it is a matter of national security, it should be gov't responsibility...much like the Coast Guard manages our shorelines.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 11:19 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | I have a different view: I don't think security should be the resposibility of airlines. I think because it is a matter of national security, it should be gov't responsibility...much like the Coast Guard manages our shorelines. |
I agree with you, Sue. It's too important to leave it to people who have to be concerned with a bottom line.
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copteacher
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 14:57 Post subject:
| gogirlgo wrote: | | You're right, it will be something else. If you want peace, work for justice. There's a lot of justice that isn't happening out there so I'll just have to keep raising my voice for everyone else who can't. |
I guess you speak for the 800k people that Sadaam has killed too. You want me to be consistent. Then you should be too. I guess you were not saying too much over the last 10 years prior to the war about those people dying.
I know a lot of babies are killed every day that can't speak either yet you refuse to defend them. Only defend the choice to have them killed.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 15:18 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | gogirlgo wrote: | | You're right, it will be something else. If you want peace, work for justice. There's a lot of justice that isn't happening out there so I'll just have to keep raising my voice for everyone else who can't. |
I guess you speak for the 800k people that Sadaam has killed too. You want me to be consistent. Then you should be too. I guess you were not saying too much over the last 10 years prior to the war about those people dying.
I know a lot of babies are killed every day that can't speak either yet you refuse to defend them. Only defend the choice to have them killed. |
I'm stunned that you would approach me this rudely, this publicly. You've really disappointed me today.
First of all, how dare you decide how I feel or what I've been doing the last 10 years? Let me just remind you that we've never met. You know next to nothing about me. Rather than find out, however, you've made some pretty big assumptions. Nice. Are you that sloppy in your day job, too?
If I thought babies were being killed (other than those our country killed in Iraq while dropping depleted uranium since 1990), I'd be acting on it. But I don't. That isn't the cause that resonates with me but there are several others that I work hard on.
Meanwhile it apparently does resonate with you. So what precisely are you doing about it? If you value life so much, why do you seek to take it away from others, via war in which death is inevitable and via your stance as pro-death penalty and by carrying a gun with you every day that you may have to use?
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copteacher
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Posted: 05/20/04 - 15:28 Post subject:
| Quote: | | I'm stunned that you would approach me this rudely, this publicly. You've really disappointed me today |
I am only calling you on your argument.
| Quote: |
First of all, how dare you decide how I feel or what I've been doing the last 10 years? Let me just remind you that we've never met. You know next to nothing about me. Rather than find out, however, you've made some pretty big assumptions. Nice. Are you that sloppy in your day job, too?
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YOU have made this personal. I was questioning your stance and you attack my character.
| Quote: |
If I thought babies were being killed (other than those our country killed in Iraq while dropping depleted uranium since 1990), I'd be acting on it. But I don't. That isn't the cause that resonates with me but there are several others that I work hard on.
Meanwhile it apparently does resonate with you. So what precisely are you doing about it? If you value life so much, why do you seek to take it away from others, via war in which death is inevitable and via your stance as pro-death penalty and by carrying a gun with you every day that you may have to use? |
I guess those fetuses don't count.
If I have to take a guy out who is about to take my, an innocent person's life or another person's life, so be it. Do you think any PO wants to kill. No. It is only a shame that we have to resort to that to protect our life.
As far as the death pentalty. That is a justice issue that we will always disagree on.
Some people cannot be bargined with. I believe especially as someone of the Jewish Faith you believe you can negotiate with terrorists. Once you give a little on something they will harp on something else.
These people only know brute force. It is not a bunch of people sitting around a table negotiating a contract. Those people slaughter innocent people (i.e. Nick Berg) without discretion.
I can't hand them a flower and sing kumbaha with them.
Hitler was not conquered that way either.
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