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megawill
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 Posted: 09/02/04 - 10:03 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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That is what our legal system is for. To hopefully discover the truth. The American legal system relies on truthful testimony from all participants. No one would lie about sex, would they?  |
i don't disagree with you're statement...my point is how do we (as casual observers to this whole affair) know who was lying???
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megawill
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 09/02/04 - 10:08 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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megawill |
exactly my point! So why should a woman get her reputation trashed for something difficult to prove? I don't have a strong opinion of this individual case, I don't know the facts. I do know that the case has done "nothing" for current and future rape victims across the country.
Got in this discussion last night. I'm sorry, but I agree with Elkid. If the victim had plans to "stick" it to Kobe, I'm sure it would have been easy to have a witness in a set plan. When it comes to rape, the cards are stacked against the victime to prove, the deck becomes heavier when the perpetrator has money
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copteacher
Adjunct
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Posted: 09/02/04 - 10:10 Post subject:
that is why we hate bringing rape cases forward. It comes down a lot to he said she said, espically if they are aquaintances.
We though have no choice but to bring these types of cases, even though there is likely reasonable doubt in many of them, we just move the cases along, and get caught in the middle most times from unhappy people on both sides.
The only real solid rape cases are the unknown relationship one (ie victim does not know offender). Acquaintance ones are extremely difficult to prosecute.
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megawill
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Posted: 09/02/04 - 10:13 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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megawill |
exactly my point! So why should a woman get her reputation trashed for something difficult to prove? I don't have a strong opinion of this individual case, I don't know the facts. I do know that the case has done "nothing" for current and future rape victims across the country.
Got in this discussion last night. I'm sorry, but I agree with Elkid. If the victim had plans to "stick" it to Kobe, I'm sure it would have been easy to have a witness in a set plan. When it comes to rape, the cards are stacked against the victime to prove, the deck becomes heavier when the perpetrator has money |
i agree whole heartedly with your sentiment on this...
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megawill
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 09/02/04 - 10:17 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | | We though have no choice but to bring these types of cases, even though there is likely reasonable doubt in many of them, we just move the cases along, and get caught in the middle most times from unhappy people on both sides. |
I guess you would know better than I but I have a hard time believing there are women lined up lying that they have been raped.
I guess I don't like the idea that every victim is doubted, especially when it is SUCH a hard thing to come forward with. So so scary, humiliating, degrading, demoralizing. And worse, that victims may come forward less, thinking they will be dragged through the mud as this girl was, making our society that much less safe for women with each perpetrator left free.
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kattzoo
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Posted: 09/02/04 - 14:01 Post subject:
Did any of you check out his apology? He believed it was consentual, but after months of looking at evidence and discovery can see how she did not feel that way. Pretty darn close to admitting guilt if you ask me. (yeah, yeah, she made him say it, but he always had the choice of going to court and letting the rest of the world hear the evidence for and against him)
Pardon my cynicism, but I'm sure we'll not see a civil trial. I'm sure money will be exchanged then.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 09/02/04 - 14:03 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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megawill |
exactly my point! So why should a woman get her reputation trashed for something difficult to prove? |
Why is ok for her to trash Kobe's public/private reputation? It takes two to tango. Devils advocate.
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coachmarkos
my boys could swim
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Posted: 09/03/04 - 09:17 Post subject:
All I know, for sure, is that if I lived in Eagle County, Co.
I'd be furious. The prosecutor who decided to bring this case, was an idiot. He spent millions of taxpayer $$ to just drop it right before the trial.
And I'm not calling the defendant a liar at all. But the fact that she refused testify in a criminal case. But would "supposedly" do so in a civil case (where she stands to profit) reveals something about her character.
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Cappy
Excelent
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Posted: 09/03/04 - 09:19 Post subject:
In the defendant's defense, the burden of proof in a civil case not as strong as it is in a criminal case. Look at the OJ criminal versus civil.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 09/03/04 - 09:31 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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megawill |
Aren't we talking about "consentual" versus "forced"? Either way, the judgement call by Kobe goes from morally wrong to also legally wrong, but either way a strong opinion is easy to have when it comes to having a strong belief in the sanctity of marriage.
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elkid
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Posted: 09/03/04 - 09:44 Post subject:
| Cappy wrote: | | In the defendant's defense, the burden of proof in a civil case not as strong as it is in a criminal case. Look at the OJ criminal versus civil. |
That's because criminal cases need "beyond a reasonable doubt" and civil cases only need to persuade the jury by a "preponderance of the evidence", or "more likely than not".
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megawill
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Posted: 09/03/04 - 09:55 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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megawill |
Aren't we talking about "consentual" versus "forced"? Either way, the judgement call by Kobe goes from morally wrong to also legally wrong, but either way a strong opinion is easy to have when it comes to having a strong belief in the sanctity of marriage. |
couldn't agree more with your comments about Kobe's character...regardless of whether it was consensual or not, he broke his marriage vows...
i guess my comments were geared more towards the camps that were saying: 'kobe's innocent because she won't testify', 'look at her past', 'she's just a gold digger, etc.' all may have a variety of truth but bottom line is kobe and the lady are the only ones that know what happened...
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megawill
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megawill
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megawill
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Posted: 09/03/04 - 09:55 Post subject:
| megawill wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | megawill wrote: | what i quite don't understand is how everybody can have such a strong opinion on both sides of this, when nobody truly knows what happened that evening except the two of them...
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megawill |
Aren't we talking about "consentual" versus "forced"? Either way, the judgement call by Kobe goes from morally wrong to also legally wrong, but either way a strong opinion is easy to have when it comes to having a strong belief in the sanctity of marriage. |
couldn't agree more with your comments about Kobe's character...regardless of whether it was consensual or not, he broke his marriage vows...
i guess my comments were geared more towards the camps that were saying: 'kobe's innocent because she won't testify', 'look at her past', 'she's just a gold digger, etc.' all may have a variety of truth but bottom line is kobe and the lady are the only ones that know what happened...
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megawill
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