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Sahara
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 Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:14 Post subject: Invoking a Higher Power
I've been very conscious since around the 2002 State of Union Address of how political rhetoric from POTUS has erupted. It's been a bit disturbing to me because I felt it seemed to be coming from a prophet-like perspective. This interview from the Sunday opinion page of local daily articulated very closely to what I have had brewing inside me.
I can see how the sparks could turn to flames easily on this one so I'll ask that you speak to following quotes. heh heh...try to stay OnTop, I say.
| Quote: | QUESTION: Other presidents have invoked God in their public pronouncements. What makes George W. Bush unique?
ANSWER: What makes Bush different is that he often speaks as if he has a special communication with a higher power that allows him, Bush, to know what God wants for America. He speaks as if he's a prophet of God. By that I mean he regularly issues declarations of what he thinks God wants for America.
That's quite different than previous presidents who have spoken as if they were petitioners of God asking God for some wisdom or some blessing or some guidance or thanking God for blessing the nation. Bush speaks towards the future. That's the prophetic stance of saying what God wants for the future. And then he links it to American policies. That's where it becomes particularly dangerous. |
| Quote: |
I've been asked, "What's wrong with that? He's a Christian person." What's wrong with that is that he is ethically and legally bound to represent people of all faiths and people of no religious faith. And when he as president of the United States moves that language to the front and center of a campaign against terrorism that involves Islamic militants on one side and he puts the Christian faith essentially on the other side, he has made a decision that to me is ethically undemocratic. |
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elkid
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:36 Post subject:
I agree. He gets so vehement sometimes he scares me. The Oval Office should not function as a bully pulpit.
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Ms. Jenn
Fresh, Hot & Wild
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:38 Post subject:
Frontline: The Jesus Factor
This is a very interesting Frontline that explores Bush's relationship with God and how it relates to his Presidency.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:50 Post subject:
Charles Gibson interviewed the President and sort of approached this subject as well. I agree with you Sahara and the quoted interview, I've picked up on these overtones for a few years now and I don't care for them. It hits a little too closely to theocracy for me. What I like about our country is our freedom of religion.
Thanks for the link to the Frontline Jenn...I'm sorry I missed that when it aired.
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Wicked Flea
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:55 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | I've picked up on these overtones for a few years now and I don't care for them. It hits a little too closely to theocracy for me. What I like about our country is our freedom of religion.
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I don't mind having a president that has faith or is religious, but I don't like it when they try to convert everyone else.
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phillycat
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:56 Post subject:
| Wicked Flea wrote: |
I don't mind having a president that has faith or is religious, but I don't like it when they try to convert everyone else. |
x10
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 11:59 Post subject:
| Wicked Flea wrote: |
I don't mind having a president that has faith or is religious, but I don't like it when they try to convert everyone else. |
How do you feel that he's doing that, specifically, not in general terms, but using examples? I'm probably one of the least religious people I know and I don't feel pressure to convert (and I'm honestly not a huge Bush fan either) ???
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Cappy
Excelent
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 12:08 Post subject:
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Wicked Flea
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 14:51 Post subject:
| genie wrote: |
How do you feel that he's doing that, specifically, not in general terms, but using examples? I'm probably one of the least religious people I know and I don't feel pressure to convert (and I'm honestly not a huge Bush fan either) ??? |
Examples
1. Withholding funding from the United Nations Population Fund - This is the third time the Bush administration has decided to withhold funding from UNFPA. The administration wants abstinence only programs. (which falls within their religious anti abortion beliefs)
Preemptive argument - The State Department claimed to find UNFPA in violation of the Kemp-Kasten anti-coercion law. However, multiple investigations - including one by a Bush-appointed team - have shown that claim to be untrue.
Abortion is legal in the US but it appears that the Bush admin wants to promote their own religious agenda when giving funding.
2. Endorsing an amendment to the constitution banning same sex marriage. In defining marriage explicitly as the union of a man and a woman, the current proposal before Congress uses vague and sweeping language that has the potential to deny not just marriage but also civil unions and domestic partnerships to same-sex couples. Without the legal recognition of marriage, same-sex couples are prevented from benefiting from the over 1,000 federal and state benefits afforded heterosexual married couples.
3. Faith-Based and Community Initiatives - Proclaiming that "faith-based charities work daily miracles," Bush apparently thinks religious conversion is the answer to crime, drug addiction, homelessness, teen pregnancy, and other social problems - as long as religious groups are given enough federal dollars. The problem is that some of the drug counseling places not only advocate and promote religion but they promote only their religion and their beliefs. Some are asked to renounce their homosexuality and their own religions. (I cannot find a quote on this, I saw it one of MTV's Choose or Lose segments so I will understand if you don't trust me on this)
P-I Focus: Bush weds religion, politics to form world view
"That the president -- any president -- is a person of religious faith is generally viewed by the U.S. public in favorable terms, the better to be grounded when facing momentous decisions. I share this view because I know how central the Christian faith is to my life and to many others I know and respect. Invocations of a higher power, when emphasizing inclusive and transcendent principles, seem to me to be legitimate and adroit rhetoric for a leader of 290 million people, the overwhelming majority of whom believe in God in some form. What is deeply troubling about Bush's religiosity, however, is that he consistently evinces a certainty that he knows God's will -- and he then acts upon this certainty in ways that affect billions of humans.
For example, in his address before Congress and a national television audience nine days after the terrorist attacks, Bush declared: "The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." Similarly, in the 2003 State of the Union address, with the conflict in Iraq imminent, he declared: "Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." These are not requests for divine favor; they are declarations of divine wishes."
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 21:45 Post subject:
| Ms. Jenn wrote: | Frontline: The Jesus Factor
This is a very interesting Frontline that explores Bush's relationship with God and how it relates to his Presidency. |
That is a very good document....thanks for the link....
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Ms. Jenn
Fresh, Hot & Wild
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 21:47 Post subject:
| bburgoyne26 wrote: |
That is a very good document....thanks for the link.... |
It was a worthwhile piece.
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purple hayes
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 08:56 Post subject:
| Wicked Flea wrote: | | I don't mind having a president that has faith or is religious, but I don't like it when they try to convert everyone else. |
I'd be concerned if any president claimed to have faith or religion, but I couldn't tell it by his actions.
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RexRacer
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 09:58 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: |
I'd be concerned if any president claimed to have faith or religion, but I couldn't tell it by his actions. |
General observation or Kerry jab? Just wondering.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 10:07 Post subject:
| RexRacer wrote: |
General observation or Kerry jab? Just wondering. |
That could be a Bush jab, too.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 10:13 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: |
I'd be concerned if any president claimed to have faith or religion, but I couldn't tell it by his actions. |
I'd be concerned if a president claimed a particular faith and I COULD tell it by his actions, depending on the action. I have much more respect for someone who is opposed to keeping abortion legal, for example, but respects the current law than I do someone who is opposed to keeping abortion legal and working to make it illegal. The president's job isn't to make law.
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