If I wanted to find religion (hypothetical question)
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andydp
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 Posted: 02/11/06 - 20:55 Post subject:
| Ms. Jenn wrote: | | Dives, your bible must be different than mine because my bible DOES contradict itself. Until the New Testament was written, Jesus Christ wasn't even an option. |
If I may hightlight a couple from Genesis:
Abraham and Sarah are escaping to Egypt. When they get there Abraham tells Sarah to lie and say she is Abraham's sister and not his wife or else the Egyptians will kill him. Sarah does that and within a short time Abraham is doing pretty well.
Dilemma: Has God rewarded Abraham for his lie ? Think about it: As a direct result of him telling Sarah to lie, he is friendly with the power brokers and doing very well financially. Meanwhile, his wife is being treated as single woman by his Egyptian buddies. (Why did you tell us she was your sister ? We have now sinned against your God...)
When Moses comes down from Sinai he reads off the commandments. When he gets to Canaan, he relates commandments to Aaron who will lead the tribe to the promised land.
Dilemma: The two versions are different. Has there been a revision ? Which version do we use ? Have circumstances changed and Moses feels we don't need the "missing" ones ?
Just some thoughts.
Last edited by andydp on 02/12/06 - 08:22; edited 1 time in total
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Phar lap
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Posted: 02/11/06 - 22:22 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | | Ms. Jenn wrote: | | Dives, your bible must be different than mine because my bible DOES contradict itself. Until the New Testament was written, Jesus Christ wasn't even an option. |
If I may hightlight a couple from Genesis:
Abraham and Sarah are escaping to Egypt. When they get there Abraham tells Sarah to lie and say she is Abraham's sister and not his wife or else the Egyptians will kill him. Sarah does that and within a short time Abraham is doing pretty well.
Dilemma: Has God rewarded Abraham for his lie ? Think about it: As a direct result of him telling Sarah to lie, he is friendly with the power brokers and doing very well financially. Meanwhile, his wife is being treated as single woman by his Egyptian buddies. (Why did you tell us she was your sister ? We have now sinned against your God...)
When Moses comes down from Sinai he reads off the commandments. When he gets to Canaan, he relates commandments to Aaron who will lead the tribe to the promised land.
Dilemma: The two versions are different. Has there been a revision ? Which version do we use ? Have circumstances chenged and Moses feels we don't need the "missing" ones ?
Just some thoughts. |
God seems to have the terrible habit of using ghost writers for books which are full of ambiguities and open to a wide variety of interpretations.
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andydp
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Posted: 02/12/06 - 08:21 Post subject:
| Phar lap wrote: | | God seems to have the terrible habit of using ghost writers for books which are full of ambiguities and open to a wide variety of interpretations. |
Maybe its because God wants us believe, think and debate. Not just memorize.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 02/12/06 - 23:42 Post subject:
Do you want to find religion or do you want to find God?
i recommend the latter.
my religion often causes me problems. God, on the other hand, does not.
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 07:51 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: | Do you want to find religion or do you want to find God?
i recommend the latter.
my religion often causes me problems. God, on the other hand, does not. |
basically then, people disappoint? 
i'm 99% content with my current church but finding a comfortable place to worship would most likely make or break tentative seekers. i have been to a few supposed "open door" churches that had me coming in the front door and flying out the back. it's really a wonder i ever found a home.
God has always been with me. finding a place to worship just glorifies and fulfills that notion and honestly, without my "church" i think my journey would have been an aimless one. i'm glad i found a better direction.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 10:19 Post subject:
| Ms. Jenn wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: | | There are many people who say the Bible contradicts itself but when asked to present the evidence they typically can't, they haven't done enough research, or they have taken the Bible out of context. The Bible does not contradict itself. Period. The Bible also says there is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ (i.e. by accepting him "by faith"). Christianity is the only religion whose Savior is no longer in the grave! |
Dives, your bible must be different than mine because my bible DOES contradict itself. Until the New Testament was written, Jesus Christ wasn't even an option.
If you read the old testament, in order to reach the altar you better bring an acceptable sacraficial gift or you're gonna be struck dead immediately. But because Jesus Christ was the sacraficial lamb, I no longer have to do that. Of course, depending on your "religion", some believe you still have to bring real sacrifices to the altar because that's what the bible says to do. The bible also talks about Simon and Peter. It's contradictory until you realize later that Simon and Peter are indeed the same person.
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So, let me get this straight. You are saying the Bible contradicts itself because in the OT people have to bring sacrifices to the altar but in the NT they don't? If you can provide me with some scripture references then I will help you to see that scripture does not contradict scripture.
Last edited by DCRunningDiva on 02/13/06 - 10:30; edited 1 time in total
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 10:27 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | | Ms. Jenn wrote: | | Dives, your bible must be different than mine because my bible DOES contradict itself. Until the New Testament was written, Jesus Christ wasn't even an option. |
If I may hightlight a couple from Genesis:
Abraham and Sarah are escaping to Egypt. When they get there Abraham tells Sarah to lie and say she is Abraham's sister and not his wife or else the Egyptians will kill him. Sarah does that and within a short time Abraham is doing pretty well.
Dilemma: Has God rewarded Abraham for his lie ? Think about it: As a direct result of him telling Sarah to lie, he is friendly with the power brokers and doing very well financially. Meanwhile, his wife is being treated as single woman by his Egyptian buddies. (Why did you tell us she was your sister ? We have now sinned against your God...) |
First of all, it was only a half-truth. Sarah was Abraham's half sister (but also his wife). Abraham lost faith in God's protection when he told this half-truth. And, because of this, Abraham's problems multiplied.
| Quote: | When Moses comes down from Sinai he reads off the commandments. When he gets to Canaan, he relates commandments to Aaron who will lead the tribe to the promised land.
Dilemma: The two versions are different. Has there been a revision ? Which version do we use ? Have circumstances changed and Moses feels we don't need the "missing" ones ?
Just some thoughts. |
Can you give me some scripture references on this so I can argue the point?
Thanks!
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 10:38 Post subject:
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purple hayes
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 10:41 Post subject:
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 10:42 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | | Dilemma: The two versions are different. Has there been a revision ? Which version do we use ? Have circumstances changed and Moses feels we don't need the "missing" ones ? |
if you have issues with differing versions of the same story, you should probably avoid the gospels.
I think it's important to remember that the Bible comes to us through humans. It is not one cohesive book, but rather many books in one collection, that a group of men decided was what we needed to know. There are other books that did not make it into the canon. Some of the writers were putting things down on paper years after the fact. it could be poor memory, it could be their own "spin" on things too. You can have 2 or 3 people at a party tell you about it the next morning and you'll hear very different accounts. It depends on the prejudices that they bring to the story. That doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is people trying to elevate the Bible to the position of Deity, inerrant and literal, dictated in perfect King James English, and everything that Jesus said is in red.
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jtski908
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 11:09 Post subject:
my take is that a "religion" is a man made construct or organization that is controlled/created by MAN. as such it is fallible, imperfect and always will be. many different sects have different religious rhetoric:no drinking, dress policies, etc. these types of preferences are MANMADE and open to the interpretation of the ruling (church elders) members.
i was looking for a church to attend with my wife, in order to be around others that believe thy way i do. after visiting quite a few, one thing i have discovered is that churches are made up of ppl and as such have the same qualities; i have attended churches that are exceedingly friendly, and i have been to churches that are stand offish and even quite snooty....
ALSO, as far as the discussion about the Bible contradicting itself from the OT compared to the NT; Jesus was sent as the new covenant with man; therefore doing away with the OLD ways, therefore he is the new promise that supercedes and also does away with the OLD ways. Jesus was not only a SPRITUAL messiah, but also a POLITICAL one as well (which why the Jewish elders abhored him as he was taking away their base of power).
God realized the OLD ways were not working becuz of the fallibilites of man and that is why he sent Jesus to replace all the old promises.
i am a Christian, but, i do believe EACH person has a right to live and believe as they see fit....
Kel
(sorry so long, but its been a long thread with lots of interesting thoughts)
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 12:35 Post subject:
| Kimba90 wrote: | | I would tell you to go to the woods. Nature. That's where religion is. |
Word.
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
So, who do you think MADE those woods? Nature? |
Is it so hard to believe that things can happen without divine intervention?
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 13:30 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | Kimba90 wrote: | | I would tell you to go to the woods. Nature. That's where religion is. |
Word.
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
So, who do you think MADE those woods? Nature? |
Is it so hard to believe that things can happen without divine intervention? |
It's hard for me to believe that things happen all around me without divine intervention. However, the thing that would be difficult to comprehend is that someone other than God made the universe. I saw a video series once that, if you (or anyone else) saw it would put to rest all the questions about who created the universe. The statistics are mind-bending that it could be anyone else.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 13:36 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | Kimba90 wrote: | | I would tell you to go to the woods. Nature. That's where religion is. |
Word.
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
So, who do you think MADE those woods? Nature? |
Is it so hard to believe that things can happen without divine intervention? |
It's hard for me to believe that things happen all around me without divine intervention. However, the thing that would be difficult to comprehend is that someone other than God made the universe. I saw a video series once that, if you (or anyone else) saw it would put to rest all the questions about who created the universe. The statistics are mind-bending that it could be anyone else. |
Why, because the odds are so small that we would end up like we are? What was the video series? Can you give any more information?
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airehead
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Posted: 02/13/06 - 13:44 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | DCRunningDiva wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | Kimba90 wrote: | | I would tell you to go to the woods. Nature. That's where religion is. |
Word.
| DCRunningDiva wrote: |
So, who do you think MADE those woods? Nature? |
Is it so hard to believe that things can happen without divine intervention? |
It's hard for me to believe that things happen all around me without divine intervention. However, the thing that would be difficult to comprehend is that someone other than God made the universe. I saw a video series once that, if you (or anyone else) saw it would put to rest all the questions about who created the universe. The statistics are mind-bending that it could be anyone else. |
Why, because the odds are so small that we would end up like we are? What was the video series? Can you give any more information? |
A similar book: The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel is a great read.
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