I've been contacted by the NCAA
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HYPERASHEL
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 Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:18 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | I heard a week or two ago that a lot of schools (including Seminole) to channge all degrading mascot imagery. apparently some native americans consider it degrading. why  |
No matter how 'important' a school mascot might seem to sports fans of a particular school, it really is a demoralizing way to treat a 'race' of people. Think about how well it would go over if there were teams like the New Jersey Jews or the Los Angeles Latinos? No matter how 'well' a mascot might perform, there really is no respect for a peoples' race by parading around a football field  |
i can see it in some cases, but the Seminoles are not in any hokey thing. they have a guy dress in traditional ceremonial garb, on a horse with cermonial paint on. he charges his horse up and down the field. Now the Washington Redskins and the Atlanta Braves could have some changes, Redskins should just change the whole name. The Braves need a more respectful mascot. But Braves as a name. it's respectful, not degrading in the least bit.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:24 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | they have a guy dress in traditional ceremonial garb, on a horse with cermonial paint on. he charges his horse up and down the field. |
As cheered on by thousands of drunk college football fans.
I do see your point Hyper, and I even agree with it half the time, but it is also co-opting the name of a tribe to represent an institution that isn't really connected with the tribe.
Which also means that while one institution is cheering for the Seminoles, the rest are cheering against them.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:28 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | i can see it in some cases, but the Seminoles are not in any hokey thing. they have a guy dress in traditional ceremonial garb, on a horse with cermonial paint on. he charges his horse up and down the field. Now the Washington Redskins and the Atlanta Braves could have some changes, Redskins should just change the whole name. The Braves need a more respectful mascot. But Braves as a name. it's respectful, not degrading in the least bit. |
Being 'sports guys' I suppose we can put wiggle our brains around a mascot somehow as showing respect, but to the other 90% of the country that sees 'sports' as games or hobbies or complete wastes of time, no matter how the presentation, just that it's a "sport" mascot, it's disrespectful.
How'd it look if the Pittsburgh Popes came on the field with a mascot decked out in robes, hat and holy water? 
Catholics nationwide wouldn't be happy at all. Native Americans are no different; there is a whole lot of religion, history and culture wrapped up in the ceremonial dress and rituals.
I'm not one particularily for political correctness, but the fans of sports teams with indian based names are far from treating those images ceremonial or respectful. 
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Cappy
Excelent
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:31 Post subject:
What about the Fighting Irish
Can be viewed as derogatory to the Irish
Honestly, the NCAA has bigger things to worry about than mascots. The horribly low graduation rates amongst some of the athletes should be more important than PCing mascots.
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gretriever
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:31 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: |
Being 'sports guys' I suppose we can put wiggle our brains around a mascot somehow as showing respect, but to the other 90% of the country that sees 'sports' as games or hobbies or complete wastes of time, no matter how the presentation, just that it's a "sport" mascot, it's disrespectful.
How'd it look if the Pittsburgh Popes came on the field with a mascot decked out in robes, hat and holy water?
Catholics nationwide wouldn't be happy at all. Native Americans are no different; there is a whole lot of religion, history and culture wrapped up in the ceremonial dress and rituals.
I'm not one particularily for political correctness, but the fans of sports teams with indian based names are far from treating those images ceremonial or respectful. |
But, being relatively near these schools, I'm not hearing much of a stink from Catholics about the Notre Dame Fighting Irish or the De Paul Blue Demons.
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:41 Post subject:
| gretriever wrote: | | jrjo wrote: |
Being 'sports guys' I suppose we can put wiggle our brains around a mascot somehow as showing respect, but to the other 90% of the country that sees 'sports' as games or hobbies or complete wastes of time, no matter how the presentation, just that it's a "sport" mascot, it's disrespectful.
How'd it look if the Pittsburgh Popes came on the field with a mascot decked out in robes, hat and holy water?
Catholics nationwide wouldn't be happy at all. Native Americans are no different; there is a whole lot of religion, history and culture wrapped up in the ceremonial dress and rituals.
I'm not one particularily for political correctness, but the fans of sports teams with indian based names are far from treating those images ceremonial or respectful. |
But, being relatively near these schools, I'm not hearing much of a stink from Catholics about the Notre Dame Fighting Irish or the De Paul Blue Demons. |
Isn't (or wasn't) Notre Dame a Catholic run University? Makes a difference if you choose the mascot yourself. Not much to protest about, then.
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:42 Post subject:
Y'all are mucking up my thread with all this serious mumbo-jumbo.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:47 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: | | gretriever wrote: | | jrjo wrote: |
Being 'sports guys' I suppose we can put wiggle our brains around a mascot somehow as showing respect, but to the other 90% of the country that sees 'sports' as games or hobbies or complete wastes of time, no matter how the presentation, just that it's a "sport" mascot, it's disrespectful.
How'd it look if the Pittsburgh Popes came on the field with a mascot decked out in robes, hat and holy water?
Catholics nationwide wouldn't be happy at all. Native Americans are no different; there is a whole lot of religion, history and culture wrapped up in the ceremonial dress and rituals.
I'm not one particularily for political correctness, but the fans of sports teams with indian based names are far from treating those images ceremonial or respectful. |
But, being relatively near these schools, I'm not hearing much of a stink from Catholics about the Notre Dame Fighting Irish or the De Paul Blue Demons. |
Isn't (or wasn't) Notre Dame a Catholic run University? Makes a difference if you choose the mascot yourself. Not much to protest about, then. |
Then there are the Valparaiso Crusaders. Crusaders weren't glowing examples of great people I don't know, I'm not native American but I don't think all native American mascots should be done away with, think Braves is a great mascot, it is a term for a warrior, right? What a great mascot. Redskins I can see doing away with, sounds derogatory. I don't think all the "devil" mascots should be done away with either. I think its just a mascot. Big deal.
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:51 Post subject:
i'm still  over the pittsburgh popes.
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cherylpf
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 16:57 Post subject:
| rolling rock wrote: | | i'm still over the pittsburgh popes. |
I don't think I'd mind the Lutheran Liturgists. I mean, I'm not sure I'd be intimidated by their fierceness but not so much offended either.
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gretriever
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 17:15 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: | | Isn't (or wasn't) Notre Dame a Catholic run University? Makes a difference if you choose the mascot yourself. Not much to protest about, then. |
Both ND and DP are Catholic. But all schools choose their mascots, no? So it's back to square one.
And schools do change their names. Marquette had the Warriors (which I never thought was exclusively associated with Indians), and changed to the (lame) Golden Eagles. Stanford - Indians to the Cardinal. And not just colleges.
Here in Illinois, high schools have a particular bent for bad team names (especially compared to something like 'Indians'). Pekin was known as the Chinks, and Rockford East teams were called the E-Rabs (!). I know the former has changed (to the Cardinals); I hope the latter has.
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 17:25 Post subject:
| gretriever wrote: | | Stanford - Indians to the Cardinal. And not just colleges. |
which, as an aside, wtf is "cardinal"???? I know I know, a pine tree. But wtf dude?
| Quote: | | Here in Illinois, high schools have a particular bent for bad team names (especially compared to something like 'Indians'). Pekin was known as the Chinks, and Rockford East teams were called the E-Rabs (!). I know the former has changed (to the Cardinals); I hope the latter has. |
 and I'll admit
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gretriever
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 17:30 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: | | gretriever wrote: | | Stanford - Indians to the Cardinal. And not just colleges. |
which, as an aside, wtf is "cardinal"???? I know I know, a pine tree. But wtf dude? |
Dunno. What's a Crimson Tide? Better still, what is a Hoya?
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 17:31 Post subject:
| gretriever wrote: | | cherylpf wrote: | | gretriever wrote: | | Stanford - Indians to the Cardinal. And not just colleges. |
which, as an aside, wtf is "cardinal"???? I know I know, a pine tree. But wtf dude? |
Dunno. What's a Crimson Tide? |
Apparently an elephant? | Quote: | | Better still, what is a Hoya? |
and a bulldog? wtf.
or an aggie. Or a hoosier.
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gretriever
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Posted: 08/16/05 - 17:35 Post subject:
Thank goodness the alma mater never designed a mascot for its teams. Although switch the letters around and you can change "Blugolds" to "Bulldogs." 
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