How do illegals pay taxes?
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kristin31
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 Posted: 04/18/06 - 21:01 Post subject:
Again, this is more widespread across different nationalities than most people are aware.
I have to get off of this because I will go off-topic.
I'd like to see what would happen if we bult a wall. What would happen to many businesses? Could be interesting.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 21:53 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Running Brewer wrote: | | well then maybe your the exception to that. But I saw on the news the other day some fine folks from the state of Georgia burning a Mexican flag. Guardians of the frontier I think they called themselves. (I didn't know that georgia was a frontier state) I call that racism. |
Yet, when a US Flag is burned, it is defended as free speech. Quite the double standard, don't you think? |
Sonny, did you really think RB was making a comment about free speech? Let's focus on the topic. I feel sure his point was the intent behind the burning of the flag, not the legality of it.
Gman: you're right, numbers are hard to find. But the people I know who work for the service and my IMM professors put it anywhere from 18-25, and +/- 6 are from Mexico.
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Running Brewer
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Posted: 04/19/06 - 14:03 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Running Brewer wrote: | | well then maybe your the exception to that. But I saw on the news the other day some fine folks from the state of Georgia burning a Mexican flag. Guardians of the frontier I think they called themselves. (I didn't know that georgia was a frontier state) I call that racism. |
Yet, when a US Flag is burned, it is defended as free speech. Quite the double standard, don't you think? |
it may be but that isn't my point. I am the first to stand up for the US, and disagree with flag burning. but that is a different topic.
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RangerG
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Posted: 05/01/06 - 17:22 Post subject:
I wonder what the result would be if 11 million of US entered Mexico illegaly...or Brazil....or France...or Germany....or Russia....
Regadless of your opinion of the matter, the U.S. has been very tollerant up to this point. We are not locking eveyone up in unheated cells with no food, medical care or access to consulate services. Can you say ANY othe country would be so kind?
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW!
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 10:15 Post subject:
| RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality.
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robp
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 10:32 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality. |
Why do you find them offensive? Because we've allowed them to be ignored for decades and suddenly we're deciding to enforce them?
Only in America would people who are in country illegally be permitted to organize and protest the very laws they are breaking. That is so screwed up it's beyond comprehension. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world and it shouldn't be happening here.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 13:18 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality. |
Why do you find them offensive? Because we've allowed them to be ignored for decades and suddenly we're deciding to enforce them?
Only in America would people who are in country illegally be permitted to organize and protest the very laws they are breaking. That is so screwed up it's beyond comprehension. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world and it shouldn't be happening here. |
Right, god forbid we give people the right to protest. Can't have that. And for those of you about to write in that "these people" don't deserve 1st Amendment protection, save it. If you're beholden to the Constitution, which they are, you get its protection too. Don't let's waste our time arguing that very basic premise.
It's offensive b/c it adheres to some picture of reality that doesn't exist. I'm not saying a lot of change doesn't need to occur, both ways. I'm not saying let every single person in. But the rules as they are right now are just silly. If you know them, and you think there are rules that are great that should stay the way they are, specify. I think most of the dissenters here are only talking about generalities and you wouldn't believe how bad it gets when you start thinking about specifics.
I'll get you started. If you want to stop rewarding people who do it the wrong way, you have to make the right way doable. Yet there are people who applied for citizenship in the Philippines in 1982 who are still waiting. (For the slow-at-math types, that's 24 years ago.) Explain to me what incentive there would be in doing it the right way. Explain to me the rationale that the government doesn't do what it says it will but somehow the would-be immigrant should stay on the up and up, which is getting him nowhere.
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robp
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 14:45 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality. |
Why do you find them offensive? Because we've allowed them to be ignored for decades and suddenly we're deciding to enforce them?
Only in America would people who are in country illegally be permitted to organize and protest the very laws they are breaking. That is so screwed up it's beyond comprehension. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world and it shouldn't be happening here. |
Right, god forbid we give people the right to protest. Can't have that. And for those of you about to write in that "these people" don't deserve 1st Amendment protection, save it. If you're beholden to the Constitution, which they are, you get its protection too. Don't let's waste our time arguing that very basic premise.
It's offensive b/c it adheres to some picture of reality that doesn't exist. I'm not saying a lot of change doesn't need to occur, both ways. I'm not saying let every single person in. But the rules as they are right now are just silly. If you know them, and you think there are rules that are great that should stay the way they are, specify. I think most of the dissenters here are only talking about generalities and you wouldn't believe how bad it gets when you start thinking about specifics.
I'll get you started. If you want to stop rewarding people who do it the wrong way, you have to make the right way doable. Yet there are people who applied for citizenship in the Philippines in 1982 who are still waiting. (For the slow-at-math types, that's 24 years ago.) Explain to me what incentive there would be in doing it the right way. Explain to me the rationale that the government doesn't do what it says it will but somehow the would-be immigrant should stay on the up and up, which is getting him nowhere. |
So, in a nutshell, just because you think the rules are silly they don't need to be enforced. I'm not going to google all the specifics but I'd bet that your example of the Phillipines isn't exactly the norm but an abberation. If the laws need revised, and I believe they do, then let's get them revised. But we're surely not to ignore the existing laws because you don't like them.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 14:53 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality. |
Why do you find them offensive? Because we've allowed them to be ignored for decades and suddenly we're deciding to enforce them?
Only in America would people who are in country illegally be permitted to organize and protest the very laws they are breaking. That is so screwed up it's beyond comprehension. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world and it shouldn't be happening here. |
Right, god forbid we give people the right to protest. Can't have that. And for those of you about to write in that "these people" don't deserve 1st Amendment protection, save it. If you're beholden to the Constitution, which they are, you get its protection too. Don't let's waste our time arguing that very basic premise.
It's offensive b/c it adheres to some picture of reality that doesn't exist. I'm not saying a lot of change doesn't need to occur, both ways. I'm not saying let every single person in. But the rules as they are right now are just silly. If you know them, and you think there are rules that are great that should stay the way they are, specify. I think most of the dissenters here are only talking about generalities and you wouldn't believe how bad it gets when you start thinking about specifics.
I'll get you started. If you want to stop rewarding people who do it the wrong way, you have to make the right way doable. Yet there are people who applied for citizenship in the Philippines in 1982 who are still waiting. (For the slow-at-math types, that's 24 years ago.) Explain to me what incentive there would be in doing it the right way. Explain to me the rationale that the government doesn't do what it says it will but somehow the would-be immigrant should stay on the up and up, which is getting him nowhere. |
So, in a nutshell, just because you think the rules are silly they don't need to be enforced. I'm not going to google all the specifics but I'd bet that your example of the Phillipines isn't exactly the norm but an abberation. If the laws need revised, and I believe they do, then let's get them revised. But we're surely not to ignore the existing laws because you don't like them. |
Yeah, Rob. I'm training to be a lawyer so I definitely feel that What Melissa Says Should Be Legislated. Do us all a favor and don't try to put this into some ridiculous context. The Philippines example is but one of many such situations.
How about this, my non-Googling colleague: why do we only care about the blue-collar workers? Why does no one worry if an Indian high-tech worker comes to work for Microsoft and takes the job away from some equally qualified American?
And I note you didn't answer the issue of why protesting is wrong.
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robp
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 15:59 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality. |
Why do you find them offensive? Because we've allowed them to be ignored for decades and suddenly we're deciding to enforce them?
Only in America would people who are in country illegally be permitted to organize and protest the very laws they are breaking. That is so screwed up it's beyond comprehension. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world and it shouldn't be happening here. |
Right, god forbid we give people the right to protest. Can't have that. And for those of you about to write in that "these people" don't deserve 1st Amendment protection, save it. If you're beholden to the Constitution, which they are, you get its protection too. Don't let's waste our time arguing that very basic premise.
It's offensive b/c it adheres to some picture of reality that doesn't exist. I'm not saying a lot of change doesn't need to occur, both ways. I'm not saying let every single person in. But the rules as they are right now are just silly. If you know them, and you think there are rules that are great that should stay the way they are, specify. I think most of the dissenters here are only talking about generalities and you wouldn't believe how bad it gets when you start thinking about specifics.
I'll get you started. If you want to stop rewarding people who do it the wrong way, you have to make the right way doable. Yet there are people who applied for citizenship in the Philippines in 1982 who are still waiting. (For the slow-at-math types, that's 24 years ago.) Explain to me what incentive there would be in doing it the right way. Explain to me the rationale that the government doesn't do what it says it will but somehow the would-be immigrant should stay on the up and up, which is getting him nowhere. |
So, in a nutshell, just because you think the rules are silly they don't need to be enforced. I'm not going to google all the specifics but I'd bet that your example of the Phillipines isn't exactly the norm but an abberation. If the laws need revised, and I believe they do, then let's get them revised. But we're surely not to ignore the existing laws because you don't like them. |
Yeah, Rob. I'm training to be a lawyer so I definitely feel that What Melissa Says Should Be Legislated. Do us all a favor and don't try to put this into some ridiculous context. The Philippines example is but one of many such situations.
How about this, my non-Googling colleague: why do we only care about the blue-collar workers? Why does no one worry if an Indian high-tech worker comes to work for Microsoft and takes the job away from some equally qualified American?
And I note you didn't answer the issue of why protesting is wrong. |
I'm not putting it into a ridiculous context - thats what it sounds like you're saying.
I'm betting that Microsoft isn't in the habit of hiring illegals to work for them. If the Indian high tech worker immigrates legally - more power to them. The vast majority of those type jobs are being farmed out to workers IN other countries, not illegal immigrants who show up here offering to work cheaply.
I've got nothing against protesting. I think it's wrong that non-residents who have entered the country illegally are permitted to protest the very laws they are breaking. If you want to protest it, knock yourself out.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 23:12 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | RangerG wrote: |
I find it offensive that the illegal's are protesting that the U.S. is cracking down on them BREAKING THE LAW! |
I find it offensive that the laws are completely out of touch with reality. |
Why do you find them offensive? Because we've allowed them to be ignored for decades and suddenly we're deciding to enforce them?
Only in America would people who are in country illegally be permitted to organize and protest the very laws they are breaking. That is so screwed up it's beyond comprehension. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world and it shouldn't be happening here. |
Right, god forbid we give people the right to protest. Can't have that. And for those of you about to write in that "these people" don't deserve 1st Amendment protection, save it. If you're beholden to the Constitution, which they are, you get its protection too. Don't let's waste our time arguing that very basic premise.
It's offensive b/c it adheres to some picture of reality that doesn't exist. I'm not saying a lot of change doesn't need to occur, both ways. I'm not saying let every single person in. But the rules as they are right now are just silly. If you know them, and you think there are rules that are great that should stay the way they are, specify. I think most of the dissenters here are only talking about generalities and you wouldn't believe how bad it gets when you start thinking about specifics.
I'll get you started. If you want to stop rewarding people who do it the wrong way, you have to make the right way doable. Yet there are people who applied for citizenship in the Philippines in 1982 who are still waiting. (For the slow-at-math types, that's 24 years ago.) Explain to me what incentive there would be in doing it the right way. Explain to me the rationale that the government doesn't do what it says it will but somehow the would-be immigrant should stay on the up and up, which is getting him nowhere. |
So, in a nutshell, just because you think the rules are silly they don't need to be enforced. I'm not going to google all the specifics but I'd bet that your example of the Phillipines isn't exactly the norm but an abberation. If the laws need revised, and I believe they do, then let's get them revised. But we're surely not to ignore the existing laws because you don't like them. |
Yeah, Rob. I'm training to be a lawyer so I definitely feel that What Melissa Says Should Be Legislated. Do us all a favor and don't try to put this into some ridiculous context. The Philippines example is but one of many such situations.
How about this, my non-Googling colleague: why do we only care about the blue-collar workers? Why does no one worry if an Indian high-tech worker comes to work for Microsoft and takes the job away from some equally qualified American?
And I note you didn't answer the issue of why protesting is wrong. |
I'm not putting it into a ridiculous context - thats what it sounds like you're saying.
I'm betting that Microsoft isn't in the habit of hiring illegals to work for them. If the Indian high tech worker immigrates legally - more power to them. The vast majority of those type jobs are being farmed out to workers IN other countries, not illegal immigrants who show up here offering to work cheaply.
I've got nothing against protesting. I think it's wrong that non-residents who have entered the country illegally are permitted to protest the very laws they are breaking. If you want to protest it, knock yourself out. |
A company like Microsoft or Sun has to jump through ridiculous hoops to get a non-US worker here on a business visa. They find ways around all of it, too. It's not like it's totally on the up and up but like everyone else, they're doing what they have to get through. Not to say this is how we should conduct ourselves, just to say it's not as the the business-visa crew is any better.
Interestingly, the new Specter proposed legislation makes it easier for foreign students to stay here and get training after they're done school. How come that's not being done for their American counterparts?
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 16:08 Post subject:
why aren't they entering other countries illegally???? Is United States the "place to be". Anyone ever try to to go to another country. Where's Phar Lap to explain how easy it is to become a citizen in his country (I'm working on the assets part before an attempt)
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Running Brewer
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 16:47 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | why aren't they entering other countries illegally???? Is United States the "place to be". Anyone ever try to to go to another country. Where's Phar Lap to explain how easy it is to become a citizen in his country (I'm working on the assets part before an attempt) |
where are they going to go? They come here because they can earn more money and perhaps live a better lifestyle. Is the US the "place to be" what do you think? I certainly think so, and my guess is that your ancestors thought the same, that is why you are here today.
I will also say the mexicans can enter many other countries with just a passport, just as we can. Why don't they immigrate to canada? Because it is too far for them to travel back and forth. Most of the Mexicans that I know that come here to work, do so for about 6-8months, then they return home for a few months before coming back.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 20:17 Post subject:
| Running Brewer wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | | why aren't they entering other countries illegally???? Is United States the "place to be". Anyone ever try to to go to another country. Where's Phar Lap to explain how easy it is to become a citizen in his country (I'm working on the assets part before an attempt) |
where are they going to go? They come here because they can earn more money and perhaps live a better lifestyle. Is the US the "place to be" what do you think? I certainly think so, and my guess is that your ancestors thought the same, that is why you are here today.
I will also say the mexicans can enter many other countries with just a passport, just as we can. Why don't they immigrate to canada? Because it is too far for them to travel back and forth. Most of the Mexicans that I know that come here to work, do so for about 6-8months, then they return home for a few months before coming back. |
yep, Canada is so much further, than ......um....Wisconsin. My ancestors were documented.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 20:23 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | Running Brewer wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | | why aren't they entering other countries illegally???? Is United States the "place to be". Anyone ever try to to go to another country. Where's Phar Lap to explain how easy it is to become a citizen in his country (I'm working on the assets part before an attempt) |
where are they going to go? They come here because they can earn more money and perhaps live a better lifestyle. Is the US the "place to be" what do you think? I certainly think so, and my guess is that your ancestors thought the same, that is why you are here today.
I will also say the mexicans can enter many other countries with just a passport, just as we can. Why don't they immigrate to canada? Because it is too far for them to travel back and forth. Most of the Mexicans that I know that come here to work, do so for about 6-8months, then they return home for a few months before coming back. |
yep, Canada is so much further, than ......um....Wisconsin. My ancestors were documented. |
The number of illegals in Canada probably resembles that of those living in Wisconsin. But the majority of illegals are not living in Wisconsin or Canada anyway.
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