How do illegals pay taxes?
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wanttorun100
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 Posted: 04/17/06 - 17:17 Post subject: How do illegals pay taxes?
except for sales tax and if they coose to play the lottery (tax on the stupid)
I think I like the fair tax more and more - illegals will have to pay the sales tax but won't get the benefit of tax prebates - essentially raising the taxes they have to pay
http://www.fairtax.org/
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prohemp
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Posted: 04/17/06 - 19:25 Post subject:
Big picture = immigrants who enter the country illegally and buy a social security number in order to get a job do pay taxes through their withholding. The beauty of this is that they don't file a F1040...since in most cases they are simple wage earners and probably due a refund if they ever did file - so the federal treasury keeps the tax and any overpayment of tax.
Regarding the fair tax in you link | Quote: | Funding for Social Security and Medicare benefits remains the same. The Social Security and Medicare
trust funds receive the same amount of money as they do under current law. The source of the trust fund
revenue is a dedicated portion of sales tax revenue instead of payroll tax revenue. |
So that's how the trust fund is funded - but how will benefits be calculated? Based on how much I spend on taxable goods? how will they keep track of that?
| Quote: | | States can elect to collect the federal sales tax on behalf of the federal government |
the states are just the middle men - it's the businesses making the sales that are really collecting the tax
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thegman
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Posted: 04/17/06 - 20:41 Post subject:
| prohemp wrote: | | So that's how the trust fund is funded - but how will benefits be calculated? Based on how much I spend on taxable goods? how will they keep track of that? |
The same way they are now, as I understand it. Employers would continue to report wages for each employee to SSA for the determination of benefits.
The FairTax plan doesn't change Social Security benefits or the structure of the Social Security system. All it does is replace the revenue source.
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kristin31
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 00:55 Post subject:
I can tell you on two different levels from personal experience:
1) forged ID's \
as long as the ID's or (SS, passport, birth certificate( i.e. all of the necessary documents to fill out an I-9 and register as valid on a payroll system, which in my job at the resort was ADP, it is deducted from their payroll. As long as the SS # is not kicked back, you are legal. I was not getting paid to be a PI, nor could I morally ot legally question someone's documents (like I would do it anyway).
2) Take my ex-husband's route. As a white South African here on a vacation visa, many years ago (I was 19 when I first got married; one of the biggest mistakes of my life) he simply stayed past his expiration date.
He befriended a gentleman around his age and birthdate, altered some numbers from the guy's SS card, and it worked. Bingo. It went through everyone's payroll systems when he arrived in 1984 - 1985. Therefore, all of the necessary taxes (federal state in Ohio, SS, FICA, UT) were deducted and stored from either a
1) a bogus ##, in which case, the government never caught it
2) someonelse's #, who never caught it either.
The government never caught it. I was young and naive and not in the best situation, so I never ratted. It may have benefitted it to me to do so or I could have wound up dead. It was too late when I found out.
Let's just say that for everyone who thinks the typical problem causing illegal is your stereotypical Hispanic line cook is wrong.
My ex accumulated 4 DUI's (again, for those who seem to have an issue with race, this was a Caucasian from a wealthy family who paid taxes) and the last I heard, had a hit and run that caused physiacl damage to the other driver. He fled the scene, and the cops came to my old house (his former residence) embarassing the crap out of me on a fine Saturday morning on Ohio in July.
So, for all of these stupid stereotypes (and want to run100 this is NOT directed at you) there are plenty more whitebread looking "illegals" which I am sure certain individuals would prefer to have because they fit the good old boy image but are in fact the people causing the problems.
A wall won't keep these asshats out. They have money and lawyers. And they pay taxes, but are a much worse problem to me than the Hispanic immigrant who works three jobs, rides his bicycle to work and sends his $$ home to his family. Give me the latter over the former any day.
I can tell you more if you want. There are a ton of "illegals" in similar situation who play the same game.
The difference between them and the "Hispanics" against which one individual wants to build a wall? They don't need a wall. They have money and time and know how to buck the system and pay taxes. When they feel like working. Not always necessary, unlike some of their other "Illegals" (That is such a nasty word anyway. Let's stop using it.)
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sonnylax
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 07:01 Post subject:
I will repeat. 11+ million people have not illegally immigrated here from South Africa in the last 10-15 years. Since the US/Mexican border is the largest source of illegal immigration, it seems to me that we should want to fix that big problem first. But maybe, I'm just being too practical about things.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 11:24 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | I will repeat. 11+ million people have not illegally immigrated here from South Africa in the last 10-15 years. Since the US/Mexican border is the largest source of illegal immigration, it seems to me that we should want to fix that big problem first. But maybe, I'm just being too practical about things. |
Real number of undocumented aliens is much higher than 11MM. More like 18-25, approximately 6MM of whom are from Mexico. I'm glad to have this conversation but you keep referring to numbers that are crap.
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robp
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 11:36 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | I will repeat. 11+ million people have not illegally immigrated here from South Africa in the last 10-15 years. Since the US/Mexican border is the largest source of illegal immigration, it seems to me that we should want to fix that big problem first. But maybe, I'm just being too practical about things. |
Real number of undocumented aliens is much higher than 11MM. More like 18-25, approximately 6MM of whom are from Mexico. I'm glad to have this conversation but you keep referring to numbers that are crap. |
Why are Sonny's numbers crap and yours are the gospel? I've not seen any definitive proof either way. Any many of your tax paying immigrants aren't paying taxes because they are working under the table.
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Running Brewer
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 12:26 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | I will repeat. 11+ million people have not illegally immigrated here from South Africa in the last 10-15 years. Since the US/Mexican border is the largest source of illegal immigration, it seems to me that we should want to fix that big problem first. But maybe, I'm just being too practical about things. |
you're right we should keep them out, let's build a wall, a very large wall. put armed soliders on it to monitor it day and night. Shoot any one in no man's land. Then we let's find a legal alien or an american citizen to do the work these people have been doing for decades. Then as these people quit doing these jobs because they may be labor intensive and don't pay over $18/hr, we will have to raise the pay scale. Then when your produce costs $10/lb for tomatoes what are you going to say?
These people work hard, a lot harder than most americans. I have worked in Union shops, non union shops and mexican factories. They do their jobs, and generally don't complain. Take a walk through and american factory and listen to the workers? 75% of them are bitching about one thing or another and some of them even go so far as to sabatoge a process. They make good wages, they have great working conditions and yet they believe that and uneducated, unskilled position in an automotive factory should be earning $45k a year.
if you want to make illegal immigration go away make it easier to get a work permit. most of them only want to make a good living and support their families. They will come and work for a period of time then return to be with their families. this do this now and it is a lot harder to come and go.
What it all comes down to is racism. We have just found a way to make it legal. it isn't illegal aliens that people want to keep out, it is the Mexicans. if we are going to build a wall then do it on both borders and up the coast guard patrols in the ports. not every illegal is a Mexican but that is the only place we want to build a wall. it won't keep out the canadians, the french, the indians, the pakistanies, or any other nationality.
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phillycat
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 12:38 Post subject:
I don't think the wall is the answer because I believe much of the reason why so many illegal immigrants (not just Mexicans, but also people from many other S. American countries come through these boarders) come is because Americans offer them jobs and make it ok for them to come illegally. I don't think that all of the blame can be put on those who come in illegally. Also, I agree with what RB said that many of these people would rather come to the US and work, then return home to their families south of the border.
I think that the issue is multifacited as Go had mentioned (much more eloquently that I am sure I ever could) than just building a wall. There are other changes in policy that can be done for much, much less money that I think would be much more effective.
Lastly, I just have to say that I have worked and lived with (neighbors) many people from Mexico and other countries in Central and South America and I personally have found them to be very, very hard workers and excellent neighbors.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 13:05 Post subject:
| robp wrote: |
Why are Sonny's numbers crap and yours are the gospel? I've not seen any definitive proof either way. Any many of your tax paying immigrants aren't paying taxes because they are working under the table. |
Because my numbers come from people who do immigration documents, policy and legislation for a living, and Sonny get his numbers from Neil Boortz, who does nothing related to immigration for a living.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 13:28 Post subject:
| Running Brewer wrote: | | What it all comes down to is racism. |
Horse hockey.
If 10 - 15 million people had illegally immigrated in the last decade or so from Canada, South Africa, France, (insert any other single country here), etc. - My feelings would be exactly the same.
Mexico is the largest single country of illegal immigration to the US, by far. It has nothing to do with their race.
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thegman
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 13:35 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: |
Why are Sonny's numbers crap and yours are the gospel? I've not seen any definitive proof either way. Any many of your tax paying immigrants aren't paying taxes because they are working under the table. |
Because my numbers come from people who do immigration documents, policy and legislation for a living, and Sonny get his numbers from Neil Boortz, who does nothing related to immigration for a living. |
What sources do you use? I can't seem to find any consistency (or accuracy, I expect, given the range) in the numbers I read. 
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phillycat
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 13:41 Post subject:
I have seen several sources that put the total number of illegal immigrants at between 11 and 12m. Approx 50% of those are said to be from Mexico is what I have found.
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Running Brewer
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 15:44 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Running Brewer wrote: | | What it all comes down to is racism. |
Horse hockey.
If 10 - 15 million people had illegally immigrated in the last decade or so from Canada, South Africa, France, (insert any other single country here), etc. - My feelings would be exactly the same.
Mexico is the largest single country of illegal immigration to the US, by far. It has nothing to do with their race. |
well then maybe your the exception to that. But I saw on the news the other day some fine folks from the state of Georgia burning a Mexican flag. Guardians of the frontier I think they called themselves. (I didn't know that georgia was a frontier state) I call that racism.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 04/18/06 - 15:53 Post subject:
| Running Brewer wrote: | | well then maybe your the exception to that. But I saw on the news the other day some fine folks from the state of Georgia burning a Mexican flag. Guardians of the frontier I think they called themselves. (I didn't know that georgia was a frontier state) I call that racism. |
Yet, when a US Flag is burned, it is defended as free speech. Quite the double standard, don't you think?
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