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marathonrnr262
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Joined: 14 May 2002
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 Posted: 01/24/05 - 11:53 Post subject: Health insurance.
I do not usually post here, but I was working with a patient this AM that just left me dumbfounded.
He has BC/BS, a really good insurance in comparison to most others. Yes, it is expensive and I'm sure he pays a hefty premium. He is a cardiac patient with coronary artery disease. He is also a SMOKER.
I reviewed his chart and he has been warned on just about every office visit that smoking is dangerous to his health and the "vasoconstriction properties of nicotine". He is also mildly obese.
Why should this man that refuses to take care of himself be offered the best medical care available, when their are people that do everything they can; ie, eating right, exercise, not smoking, etc. and cannot afford to eat and take their medication.
I know I'm ranting, but this guy was the poster child for disgusting.
Sheldon
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bburgoyne26
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 2959
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:08 Post subject:
I guess we just have to accept that there is a certain percentage of the population that do not take the advice offered, and all we can do is to keep doing our job, whether we are doctors, pastors, psychologists, mechanics, vetrinarians, etc........ 
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Joined: 21 Aug 2003
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:17 Post subject:
The trouble with complaining about smokers is that it is an addiction. So, we're dealing with the combination of some maybe not wanting to quit and others who are just having trouble quitting despite trying.
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camelia bedelia
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 2808
Location: God's Country
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:18 Post subject:
Was he offered any real help in trying to quit, or just told to?
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16218
Location: unknown zone
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:23 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | Was he offered any real help in trying to quit, or just told to? |
i would guess that, in his case, the quit smoking program will be offered in the cardiac rehab program he'll enter if he's lucky enough to survive his impending heart attack.
cardiac patients that smoke practically deserve their destiny. sorry if that sounds harsh, but being married to a dedicated cardiac patient who does everything in his power to control the disease gives me no sympathy for a ingnorant patient like this guy.
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marathonrnr262
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:27 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | Was he offered any real help in trying to quit, or just told to? |
He has been given many drugs to aide in smoking cessation.
Sheldon
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marathonrnr262
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:29 Post subject:
| Pug wrote: | | The trouble with complaining about smokers is that it is an addiction. So, we're dealing with the combination of some maybe not wanting to quit and others who are just having trouble quitting despite trying. |
If you are told, "Stop smoking or you will die!" How much more motivation do you need? I quit, I know it's hard, but lets be real. Quit or die...Hmmmm, it's a tough Johnny, I'm going with die. ding ding, we have a loser who has taken my time from someone who really needs and wants it.
Sheldon
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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Posts: 16218
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:35 Post subject:
| marathonrnr262 wrote: |
If you are told, "Stop smoking or you will die!" How much more motivation do you need? I quit, I know it's hard, but lets be real. Quit or die...Hmmmm, it's a tough Johnny, I'm going with die. ding ding, we have a loser who has taken my time from someone who really needs and wants it.
Sheldon |
many people with cardiac disease live in a safe place called denial. they will deny deny deny until they find themselves in a cardiac ICU for 2 weeks with a scar that runs the length of their torso. even then, the true die hards will still ask for a cigarette.
we have a friend that had a quadruple bypass and smoked as soon as he was released from the hospital. 
stubborn people are stupid people. and yeah, quit wasting the time and dedication of doctors and staff who are there to help the dedicated sincere people who are trying to make the necessary changes and live a long life.
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copteacher
Adjunct
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Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 20588
Location: Teaching in the Halls of Justice
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Posted: 01/24/05 - 12:56 Post subject:
that is why the insurance industry is so screwed up
for cars the greater risk is younger drivers, they pay more.
For most of the industry insurance costs more based on risk.
I will tell you my theory why it has not happened in health insurance. Older people are a powerful voting block, they would destroy anyone who even propose something like that.
Young people could b!tch about car insurance but their lobby is very weak, old people make a lot of noise and vote.
I guess the insurance industry just spreads the risk across a broad population.
Now I am one with a daughter whose insurance company has paid in excess of 3 million dollars and would gladly pay more in premiums and would not complain. It is fair and reasonable.
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sonnylax
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 01/25/05 - 13:05 Post subject:
This is surely interesting. I've always wondered why it hadn't happened somewhere, somehow by now:
http://www.wral.com/news/4126577/detail.html
| Quote: | Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke
Michigan Firm Won't Allow Smoking, Even On Employee's Own Time
UPDATED: 8:20 AM EST January 25, 2005
LANSING, Mich. -- Four employees of a health care company have been fired for refusing to take a test to determine whether they smoke cigarettes.
Weyco Inc., a health benefits administrator based in Okemos, Mich., adopted a policy Jan. 1 that allows employees to be fired if they smoke, even if the smoking happens after business hours or at home.
Company founder Howard Weyers has said the anti-smoking rule was designed to shield the firm from high health care costs. "I don't want to pay for the results of smoking," he said.
The rule led one employee to quit before the policy was adopted. Four others were fired when they balked at the smoking test.
Chief Financial Officer Gary Climes estimated that 18 to 20 of the company's 200 employers were smokers when the policy was announced in 2003. Of those, as many as 14 quit smoking before the policy went into effect. The company offered them help to kick the habit.
"That is absolutely a victory," Climes said.
On the company's Web site, it states:
Weyco Inc. is a non-smoking company that strongly supports its employees in living healthy lifestyles. |
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Gogirlgo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 01/25/05 - 13:36 Post subject:
I worked at a place that became non-smoking. All the smokers there got a pass. No one who got hired after the policy went into effect could be a smoker. If they became smokers after they were hired, they were fired.
But the original smokers never had to stop, slow down, pay more in insurance, and still got two smoke breaks every day. How it wasn't recognized that they cost the company a lot of money, both in insurance premiums and lost production was beyond me.
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sonnylax
Member
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 01/25/05 - 13:39 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | I worked at a place that became non-smoking. All the smokers there got a pass. No one who got hired after the policy went into effect could be a smoker. If they became smokers after they were hired, they were fired.
But the original smokers never had to stop, slow down, pay more in insurance, and still got two smoke breaks every day. How it wasn't recognized that they cost the company a lot of money, both in insurance premiums and lost production was beyond me. |
What do you think go? Do you think its an invasion of privacy for companies to fire/not hire smokers? I'm on the fence on this issue, but I don't think you have any right to company provided health care - so you probably know which way I'm leaning on this issue.
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Gogirlgo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 01/25/05 - 13:46 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
What do you think go? Do you think its an invasion of privacy for companies to fire/not hire smokers? I'm on the fence on this issue, but I don't think you have any right to company provided health care - so you probably know which way I'm leaning on this issue. |
No, I don't think it's an invasion of privacy. Or if it is, there are so many other invasions that it doesn't matter. What I was saying above was to illustrate that if you're going to have a policy that says you value health of employees and no one can smoke, then it should be across the board. There should have been smoking cessation for the original smokers.
What I objected to was how unevenly it was applied, not that it was occurring.
There's no right to company-funded healthcare, it's true. But that's how healthcare gets funded in America. And the gov clearly wants that to continue b/c instead of taxing that benefit, it's forgone revenue.
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Gogirlgo
Member
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4777
Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 01/25/05 - 13:46 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
What do you think go? Do you think its an invasion of privacy for companies to fire/not hire smokers? I'm on the fence on this issue, but I don't think you have any right to company provided health care - so you probably know which way I'm leaning on this issue. |
No, I don't think it's an invasion of privacy. Or if it is, there are so many other invasions that it doesn't matter. What I was saying above was to illustrate that if you're going to have a policy that says you value health of employees and no one can smoke, then it should be across the board. There should have been smoking cessation for the original smokers.
What I objected to was how unevenly it was applied, not that it was occurring.
There's no right to company-funded healthcare, it's true. But that's how healthcare gets funded in America. And the gov clearly wants that to continue b/c instead of taxing that benefit, it's forgone revenue.
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16242
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
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Posted: 01/25/05 - 14:58 Post subject:
I don't think there is any way in hell that a company could justify hiring/not hiring personnel based on their smoking habits. Smoking is not illegal. The same bias could be used in so many different ways it would turn into a nightmare. A company can ban on-site smoking and smoke breaks but that is about as far as it could go.
If you're going to make it policy that no employees can smoke then why not make it policy that none can have high cholesterol or be more than 20 lbs overweight? Why not make all employees participate in an employer sponsored and supervised 45 minute workout sessions prior to work each day?
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