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rolling rock
The Pinball
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16218
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 Posted: 05/02/06 - 21:04 Post subject:
double post 
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.jrjo
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 900
Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 21:06 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | | I think it's absolutely the wrong place and the wrong time. |
When is the right time and the right place to say "God Hates Fags"? |
Wherever freedom of speech is permitted, no?
/not that i agree with that particular (god hates fags) pov |
Just becuase they have the legal right, doesn't mean it is right.
I repeat, Fred Phelps is evil. |
huh? |
Is what they did morally right or it is ever morally right to say "God Hates Fags"? |
Morals are a personal measure. Mine are different than yours and different than theirs. I'd dare say everyone can feel morally obligated to express their freedom of speech in the way they see fit. Whether I agree with that or not doesn't change their personal moral motivation. As a civilized society, I see nothing wrong with limiting speech such as yelling 'fire' in a crowd or protesting a funeral, but we can't unilaterally say there is "no right time" for people to say what they feel they must, hateful or otherwise, donchathink?
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 21:35 Post subject:
| .jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | | I think it's absolutely the wrong place and the wrong time. |
When is the right time and the right place to say "God Hates Fags"? |
Wherever freedom of speech is permitted, no?
/not that i agree with that particular (god hates fags) pov |
Just becuase they have the legal right, doesn't mean it is right.
I repeat, Fred Phelps is evil. |
huh? |
Is what they did morally right or it is ever morally right to say "God Hates Fags"? |
Morals are a personal measure. Mine are different than yours and different than theirs. I'd dare say everyone can feel morally obligated to express their freedom of speech in the way they see fit. Whether I agree with that or not doesn't change their personal moral motivation. As a civilized society, I see nothing wrong with limiting speech such as yelling 'fire' in a crowd or protesting a funeral, but we can't unilaterally say there is "no right time" for people to say what they feel they must, hateful or otherwise, donchathink? |
You don't have a problem legislating morality when it comes to a woman's right to choose.
I ask again, if it was a Muslim/liberal/atheist group that posted a sign saying "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" would be defending their right to say it?
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.jrjo
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Posted: 05/02/06 - 22:57 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | You don't have a problem legislating morality when it comes to a woman's right to choose. |
I'm sure we can agree, morality crosses any civilization's 'rights' when it involved taking someone's life. Whether you see that as the case or not with your own opinion on a woman's right to choose, you have to respect my viewpoint that I see it as murder and that crosses the first thread of being civilized anywhere in the history of the planet. It is not legislating morality to demand people won't kill each other.
| Quote: |
I ask again, if it was a Muslim/liberal/atheist group that posted a sign saying "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" would be defending their right to say it? |
They've got the right, have at it. I'm sure I've said it several which ways now. Just don't do it at a funeral is all. 
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runaroundsue
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Joined: 18 Sep 2002
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Location: supporting GREENer pastures
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 17:47 Post subject:
my analogy
CamBed doesn't really like PH's floral shirt, I'm pretty sure I know this, so I made a sign today, I'm going on Good Morning America tomorrow with my sign that says "CamBed Hates PH". I wonder if CamBed will be angry with me or PH.
now put "God" instead of dear CB and "fag" in place the great PH.
either CB or God will not be to happy with me.
so I guess I don't think it's ever morally right to protest under the premise of God.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 17:54 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | my analogy
CamBed doesn't really like PH's floral shirt, I'm pretty sure I know this, so I made a sign today, I'm going on Good Morning America tomorrow with my sign that says "CamBed Hates PH". I wonder if CamBed will be angry with me or PH.
now put "God" instead of dear CB and "fag" in place the great PH.
either CB or God will not be to happy with me.
so I guess I don't think it's ever morally right to protest under the premise of God. |
I don't get your analogy.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 20:56 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | my analogy
CamBed doesn't really like PH's floral shirt, I'm pretty sure I know this, so I made a sign today, I'm going on Good Morning America tomorrow with my sign that says "CamBed Hates PH". I wonder if CamBed will be angry with me or PH.
now put "God" instead of dear CB and "fag" in place the great PH.
either CB or God will not be to happy with me.
so I guess I don't think it's ever morally right to protest under the premise of God. |
I don't get your analogy. |
God doesn't hate homosexuals, God may dislike something that they do! Even if you think that homosexuality is wrong, sinful, or whatever.....it is no less sinful to pass judgement on that person, that is His job, and His alone.
I guess I see a big difference between "God hates fags" and "the Bible says homosexuality is wrong".
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 05/03/06 - 21:28 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: | my analogy
CamBed doesn't really like PH's floral shirt, I'm pretty sure I know this, so I made a sign today, I'm going on Good Morning America tomorrow with my sign that says "CamBed Hates PH". I wonder if CamBed will be angry with me or PH.
now put "God" instead of dear CB and "fag" in place the great PH.
either CB or God will not be to happy with me.
so I guess I don't think it's ever morally right to protest under the premise of God. |
I don't get your analogy. |
Her point is, cb = God. 
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 11:10 Post subject:
But jrjo there are places where the SC says just that, that your right to protest doesn't supersede a particular event going on. It can't interrupt.
There are absolutely limitations to the protection of freedom of speech.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 11:25 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | But jrjo there are places where the SC says just that, that your right to protest doesn't supersede a particular event going on. It can't interrupt.
There are absolutely limitations to the protection of freedom of speech. |
Aren't there restrictions against Hate speech in some states?
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.jrjo
Member
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 11:43 Post subject:
Okay, now y'all are fakin' me out. I've been at this site for four years reading the litanies of free speech and it's absolute righteousness. Now you're telling me there's limitations?? 
/how can anybody be on one side or the other of any topic anymore? 
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 11:50 Post subject:
I'm training to be a lawyer--it no longer matters what I think personally, I can see both sides of anything.
Of course there are limitations. The SC is all about time, place and manner of speech/conduct.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 11:57 Post subject:
| .jrjo wrote: | Okay, now y'all are fakin' me out. I've been at this site for four years reading the litanies of free speech and it's absolute righteousness. Now you're telling me there's limitations??
/how can anybody be on one side or the other of any topic anymore? |
I, for one, jrjo, am not saying they shouldn’t have the legal right to do what they did, what I’m saying, is when we see crap like that, we should all use our freedom of speech to speak out against them. This isn’t an issue of a “religious” group (I don’t why how any religion would want to claim those people) being unfairly criticized, it is about a group that continually spreads hate and does their best to inflict emotional harm on people to get their point across. Who could justify that as a good and holy thing to do?
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thegman
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 12:08 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I'm training to be a lawyer--it no longer matters what I think personally, I can see both sides of anything. |
Your transformation is almost complete, then.
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airehead
Oompa Loofah
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Location: Between here and eternity...
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Posted: 05/04/06 - 12:32 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | .jrjo wrote: | Okay, now y'all are fakin' me out. I've been at this site for four years reading the litanies of free speech and it's absolute righteousness. Now you're telling me there's limitations??
/how can anybody be on one side or the other of any topic anymore? |
I, for one, jrjo, am not saying they shouldn’t have the legal right to do what they did, what I’m saying, is when we see crap like that, we should all use our freedom of speech to speak out against them. This isn’t an issue of a “religious” group (I don’t why how any religion would want to claim those people) being unfairly criticized, it is about a group that continually spreads hate and does their best to inflict emotional harm on people to get their point across. Who could justify that as a good and holy thing to do? |
/aside: From the research I've done, nobody does claim them. They are not affiliated with any national denomination other than to use the term "Christian" or "Baptist". They are a law unto themselves. Most of the church is family.
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