Evolution and Intelligent Design
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youngrunner
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 Posted: 01/20/05 - 18:31 Post subject:
| bburgoyne26 wrote: |
Seriously though, I'm not even sure at what grade level the word "evolution" even starts appearing in the science books. I'm gonna try to find out.
? |
The first time I learned in school about it was 7th grade. The teacher sort of skipped over the subject, offering it as extra credit. As I did the report, I saw
parts that contradicted some religous belielfs. SO, because of certain people's religion not everyone got to learn about evolution. 
( Yeah, I'm into science- it's my favorite subject by far! )
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Sahara
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 20:10 Post subject:
Interestingly the first I ever learned about evolution (other than just hearing the word but not understanding what it was) was in my church's catechism class in about eighth grade. One of the kids brought it up after class and the pastor and all 12 or so of us discussed, exchanged ideas, learned. I learned more about later in public school but frankly it was not a significant part of the curriculum and barely remember the fact that it was mentioned in h.s.. Creationism was instructed in church as far back as I can remember (pre -reading years certainly).
Instruction of faith-based items should stay in the church.
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jrjo
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 20:27 Post subject:
That is interesting how churches are not afraid at all to discuss evolution. I too have learned much of evolution in my church. If the theory of evolution is such a slam dunk, it should be comparable, challengeable and solid enough to withstand a side-by-side discussion with creationism, no? If creationists were as threatened by evolution as evolutionists are threatened by creationism, churches across America would kick people outta church that even brought up the idea.
What a good angle to put this under Sahara. It is surprising how we want to narrow the scope of schools, yet it's the churches that take on the tough questions, discussions and wrestle with it all...which when you think about it is "educating".
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 16:40 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | What a good angle to put this under Sahara. It is surprising how we want to narrow the scope of schools, yet it's the churches that take on the tough questions, discussions and wrestle with it all...which when you think about it is "educating". |
Well that is certainly one way you could spin it. But the fact is, I don't think a single person here has said they object to their children knowing that there are people who believe in creationism. What I, and others, object to is trying to pass creationism off as SCIENCE. Even you yourself admitted it is about belief, not science. I can't understand if you can't or won't admit there is a difference.
It is your BELIEF that Jesus is God. Should the BELIEF that he is God be taught in history classes?
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Laurie Ellen
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 16:49 Post subject:
What I don't understand is why any of it is taught in school. Perhaps the perfect solution is to take Creation & Evolution and any other agenda that wants to cover how we got here and leave it to each parent to give their child what information they want them to have, how they want them to have it.
It doesn't belong in school at all.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 17:02 Post subject:
Well if that doesn't belong in school, I don't know what does. How we got here is pretty basic.
Besides, America puts all sorts of "knowledge" on the schools, like sex ed. Civics. Home economics. Things you'd like to think are taught in the home.
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Laurie Ellen
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 17:36 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | Well if that doesn't belong in school, I don't know what does. How we got here is pretty basic.
Besides, America puts all sorts of "knowledge" on the schools, like sex ed. Civics. Home economics. Things you'd like to think are taught in the home. |
But those things you mention are not theories.
We do not know how we got here. It shouldn't be TAUGHT in school if the TEACHER doesn't even know whether it's true, or what's true.
I had a brilliant idea, and I'm sticking to it. Get it out of school altogether, and the controversy would be over, and everyone will be happy.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 17:39 Post subject:
| Laurie Ellen wrote: |
But those things you mention are not theories.
We do not know how we got here. It shouldn't be TAUGHT in school if the TEACHER doesn't even know whether it's true, or what's true.
I had a brilliant idea, and I'm sticking to it. Get it out of school altogether, and the controversy would be over, and everyone will be happy. |
Should we teach math then? Or physics? Or biology?
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Laurie Ellen
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 17:45 Post subject:
Oh, for God's sake,
Just forget I said anything.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 17:48 Post subject:
| Laurie Ellen wrote: | Oh, for God's sake,
Just forget I said anything. |
Just trying to understand your point, LE.
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jrjo
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 21:39 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: |
Well that is certainly one way you could spin it. But the fact is, I don't think a single person here has said they object to their children knowing that there are people who believe in creationism. What I, and others, object to is trying to pass creationism off as SCIENCE. Even you yourself admitted it is about belief, not science. I can't understand if you can't or won't admit there is a difference.
It is your BELIEF that Jesus is God. Should the BELIEF that he is God be taught in history classes? |
A few threads back, I started all my posts with this and I'll return to it again. I think it takes more "faith" to be an evolutionist than a creationist.
We're not going to get within spittin' distance of each other on this one CB. Let me just step back a bit and say my hope is that everywhere, education would be "for the kids". Kids don't care if us adults call it "science" or call it "history" or call it "not in my house", they just need to be given an education. They need to be given as much as we can give them. And when we adults moan and groan about what to call creationism or evolutionism, kids get caught in the cross-fire.
Again, it's just me, but my kids are going to learn about creationism and evolution. They'll get as much information as we can get into their heads. And if your kids are never exposed to creationism, all I can ask is where's more education getting done?
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/22/05 - 22:02 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: |
Again, it's just me, but my kids are going to learn about creationism and evolution. They'll get as much information as we can get into their heads. And if your kids are never exposed to creationism, all I can ask is where's more education getting done? |
Why would you assume my kids don't know about creationism?
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crazyfrog
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Posted: 01/23/05 - 00:23 Post subject:
ive kept my mouth shut during all of this because i dont want to offend anyone. but i really dont understand how anyone CANT believe in evolution. take humans out of it for a minute. how can you explain all the new strands of diseases like the flu, colds, and bacteria that we have to develop new drugs for? are they just appearing out of thin air? are they gods way of punishing us? i know, i being extreme with that last bit...
and with all this theory stuff, science (and math and physics) theories arent theories as in "this is just a hunch..." how do you explain the fact that chimpanzees have 98% of the same genes that we do, if we arent related? have you ever looked at a gorilla? its darn near like looking at a person. i have a hard time with someone telling me that i am not related to that creature.
and furthermore, if you want your kids to learn about creationsim or whatever and you feel that strongly about it, then do something and take them to church or wherever and dont leave it up to the state to do it for you.
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RexRacer
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Posted: 01/23/05 - 08:58 Post subject:
| crazyfrog wrote: | ive kept my mouth shut during all of this because i dont want to offend anyone. but i really dont understand how anyone CANT believe in evolution. take humans out of it for a minute. how can you explain all the new strands of diseases like the flu, colds, and bacteria that we have to develop new drugs for? are they just appearing out of thin air? are they gods way of punishing us? i know, i being extreme with that last bit...
and with all this theory stuff, science (and math and physics) theories arent theories as in "this is just a hunch..." how do you explain the fact that chimpanzees have 98% of the same genes that we do, if we arent related? have you ever looked at a gorilla? its darn near like looking at a person. i have a hard time with someone telling me that i am not related to that creature.
and furthermore, if you want your kids to learn about creationsim or whatever and you feel that strongly about it, then do something and take them to church or wherever and dont leave it up to the state to do it for you. |
Thank You. Very well put.
I don't know why there is such resistance to scientific discovery. Of course it's inherently flawed in that the explanations tend to be superceded by other ones over time, but what's happening is adding more information to our understanding--building up an edifice in which each idea becomes a building block for the next.
And the idea of evolution, the big bang, or sub-atomic particles being the stuff of which all matter is created in no way precludes the idea of God and some sort of original creation.
It does cast a bit of doubt on the stories of Genesis, as well as all other creation stories of all other religions and cultures. Yet my personal faith in a higher being is in no way challenged by the idea that the creation story in Genesis was a very useful way of making sense of the world and its mysteries in a time when little was known scientifically. That goes for all creation stories.
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jrjo
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Posted: 01/23/05 - 11:28 Post subject:
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